Author Topic: CB350F Front Brake Dragging, Please Help  (Read 5619 times)

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Offline newday777

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Re: CB350F Front Brake Dragging, Please Help
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2025, 03:33:44 AM »
The fluid seemed to be flowing okay, so I decided to ride it slowly around my street and it seemed to get a little better. I ventured a little farther and it was doing much better - maybe the piston just needed to cycle in and out a few times. I'll run it harder tomorrow, get it warm and see how she does.
Be sure to check the rotor heat. If hot while riding then you need to release the pressure. Carry a wrench to open the bleeder, if fluid squirts out, the return port in the master cylinder is blocked with hardened fluid and will need poking with a wire from a wire brush held in needle nose pliers. Squirting brake cleaner doesn't clear it out.

Are you still running with the old rubber brake hose? Old rubber hoses break down inside and flex causing lots of problems collapsing and swelling not getting full pressure to the piston.
Get a stainless steel brake hose. Far better braking.
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 1 K2, 4 K6, 1 K8, 1 F1, 1 F3
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline newday777

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Re: CB350F Front Brake Dragging, Please Help
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2025, 03:46:40 AM »
The fluid seemed to be flowing okay, so I decided to ride it slowly around my street and it seemed to get a little better. I ventured a little farther and it was doing much better - maybe the piston just needed to cycle in and out a few times. I'll run it harder tomorrow, get it warm and see how she does.
Did you clean out the master cylinder and the tiny return port in the reservoir? The port gets hardened fluid that has to be cleared out poking with a strand from a wire brush held with needle nose pliers. Squirting brake cleaner alone doesn't clear it out. Check the temperature of the rotor, if it is hot you will need to release the pressure, open the bleeder to release the pressure and then close it immediately. If the wheel spins freely you know the port is clogged. Do this in the shop before you get out riding.

Do you still have the old rubber brake hose on it? Replace it with a new stainless steel hose(comes in black) to get far better brakes. Raymond Chan offers good stainless steel hoses.
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 1 K2, 4 K6, 1 K8, 1 F1, 1 F3
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline idylboss

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Re: CB350F Front Brake Dragging, Please Help
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2025, 07:03:05 AM »
Yes, it still has the rubber hose, and the rotor is pretty groovy (not in the '60's meaning). Where is the best source for the hose and possibly new rotor. THX!
1970 CB750 owned since '76
1974 CB350F
1974 XL350

Offline MauiK3

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Re: CB350F Front Brake Dragging, Please Help
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2025, 07:36:05 AM »
Yamiya may have that stuff. Always good quality, fast shipping. Almost never any problems.
1973 CB 750 K3
10/72 build Z1 Kawasaki

Offline idylboss

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Re: CB350F Front Brake Dragging, Please Help
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2025, 07:45:03 AM »
Mahalo MauiK3 - we just got back to San Diego after spending 8 days on your beautiful island. It was refreshing to see Lahaina getting cleaned up and progressing from the firestorm. I'll check out the Yamiya site.
1970 CB750 owned since '76
1974 CB350F
1974 XL350

Offline M 750K6

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Re: CB350F Front Brake Dragging, Please Help
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2025, 09:24:34 AM »
Yes, it still has the rubber hose, and the rotor is pretty groovy (not in the '60's meaning). Where is the best source for the hose and possibly new rotor. THX!

HEL do a good quality braided hose kit, comes with all the fittings to attach the new hose. Comes in black, like the original.

Offline newday777

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Re: CB350F Front Brake Dragging, Please Help
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2025, 12:30:07 PM »
Raymond Chan is who I have bought stainless steel brake hoses from for my 750s.
I'm sure he can get up hoses for the 350F.
Contact him.
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 1 K2, 4 K6, 1 K8, 1 F1, 1 F3
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline newday777

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Re: CB350F Front Brake Dragging, Please Help
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2025, 12:32:09 PM »
Mahalo MauiK3 - we just got back to San Diego after spending 8 days on your beautiful island. It was refreshing to see Lahaina getting cleaned up and progressing from the firestorm. I'll check out the Yamiya site.
A good friend here in NH started the church there in Lahaina and knows the pastor there.
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 1 K2, 4 K6, 1 K8, 1 F1, 1 F3
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: CB350F Front Brake Dragging, Please Help
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2025, 03:06:21 PM »
An easy test to determine if it’s a caliper problem or a master cylinder/hose problem:
In the shop or outside-
Apply front brake hard and let off…
Crack front brake bleeder…
If it has pressure the problem is Master cylinder/ or hose related..
No pressure and brake still dragging may indicate caliper seal is bad or caliper piston is mechanically
restricted. Corrosion or damaged, burred, etc piston or bore..
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Offline M 750K6

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Re: CB350F Front Brake Dragging, Please Help
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2025, 03:15:52 PM »
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=102388.0;attach=367341

Take a look at step 39 in the Honda document linked above. The front fender / mudguard brace is on the same two bolts that attach the calliper arm to the fork leg. It needs to be in the correct position, otherwise the calliper is too far away from the fork and could cause the problem you're experiencing. It should be : 2 x bolts - fender bracket - calliper arm - fork. 👍

Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: CB350F Front Brake Dragging, Please Help
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2025, 03:18:38 PM »
The only thing that returns the caliper piston after application, of a properly functioning master cylinder,
is the Oring seal.. The oring’s resistance to deformation degrades as it ages..and the oring deformation is the only force trying to return the piston after the brake pressure is removed..

Think of a wet sponge when you poke it with your finger.. it’s resilient and the finger dent quickly disappears after you poke it.. a bad Oring or square section Oring loses it’s resiliency and acts more like a lightly frozen wet sponge. When you poke it with your finger the dent doesn’t disappear quickly or at all…
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Offline M 750K6

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Re: CB350F Front Brake Dragging, Please Help
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2025, 03:55:25 PM »
The inside pad isn't released by the hydraulics, but by the sprung arm as the outside pad retracts. If the fender bracket is against the fork leg, the spring tensioner screw would have to be backed off, to give clearance. The spring is then under less tension reducing the efficiency of the mechanism, both outer and inner pads can still rub on the disc. Maybe not enough to bind up, but enough to make a rubbing noise. Perhaps also because the master cylinder struggles to retract the outer pad far enough.

Offline jonda500

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Re: CB350F Front Brake Dragging, Please Help
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2025, 05:06:29 PM »
The only thing that returns the caliper piston after application is the Oring seal...and the oring deformation is the only force trying to return the piston after the brake pressure is removed.
+1!
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Offline Bodi

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Re: CB350F Front Brake Dragging, Please Help
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2025, 02:28:20 PM »
The entire brake is identical to what's on the disc brake 350 twins and the 400-4.
There are a few things that cause problems with piston retraction.
- Corroded piston seal groove in the caliper bore. This should be absolutely clean. Water gets in from the outside world and although it shouldn't get past the seal it will get in the groove and cause corrosion plus any dirt in that water stays. Inspection with a dental mirror will show what's there. A bronze Dremel brush is usually suggested.
- Corroded piston, worn seal. The piston hard chrome layer is pretty thin, and rust spots show up when it's compromised. This usually shows up with new pads when the piston is now further in and the seal is on the corroded spots. There are SS and phenolic replacement pistons available. The seal does get old, hard, and wears out. A new one is pretty cheap if your piston looks great.
- The MC relief hole blocked. Not common but they can be. Easy to check: with reservoir level full it may not be visible but with it low you see it clearly, when the lever is pulled the first bit of movement pumps fluid out of the hole and that's very visible as a bump on the surface. Be wary though, it can squirt right out and brake fluid is very bad for paint.
- Air in system. The retraction is partly from the piston seal relaxing and partly from the MC sucking back a bit of fluid when the lever is released. Any air in the fluid will be compressed on braking. On release the bubbles expand again. The expanding bubbles mean that the small fluid pullback just goes to that expansion and not to retracting the piston. One culprit is the tee joint for the brake light switch, very hard to get all the air out of there. I suggest reverse bleeding with either a pressure bleeder or by taking the caliper off, pumping the piston out but not past the seal, then forcing it all the way in while holding it bleeder up and rotating and tapping the (dismounted) tee while doing the pressure bleeding or piston forcing. A C clamp works well. Repeat a few times. Watch the reservoir for bubbles coming out the MC relief hole but be super cautious about fluid squirting out strongly and dissolving spots on your paint, a plastic tank cover is advised.
- Tired rubber lines. Similar to with air bubbles, the MC pullback is used up by the relaxing worn rubber lines. By now they should have been replaced years ago if original. Using braided SS lines is a good idea, and a single line is best. An MC switch banjo replaces the tee and switch. If you remove the caliper line fitting steel taper seat (a sheet metal screw into it then pull out with pliers) you can use a fitting direct to the braided SS line, avoiding the hard line and connection to it.

It's a very very simple brake with design problems that can't be avoided. But it can work very well and is a big improvement over SLS drum brakes (ie almost every Japanese bike of that era), and won't fade on heavy use like even DLS drums will. You won't be doing stoppies but probably can get the front tire to howl in heavy braking.

Even when ideal the pad may rub slightly after braking. Riding a bit should push the piston back a bit for no friction. But it should not be noticeable riding, just some friction spinning with the wheel off the ground. If there's a lot of friction something is wrong. Also if it doesn't go away in a few minutes riding. If the disc or caliper ever gets hot after a ride when you haven't been using the brake - like after a highway stretch then coasting/downshifting/back brake only to a stop, the front brake should be dead cold, fix that fast.

Offline Magpie

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Re: CB350F Front Brake Dragging, Please Help
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2025, 09:37:18 AM »
My quickest fix for a dragging brake has been to remove the piston seal and clean the groove for the seal. If you think it's clean enough, do it one more time. If the piston is pock marked with corrosion or rust spots, replace it. The seal it self is cheap, consider a new one. 

Offline bryanj

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Re: CB350F Front Brake Dragging, Please Help
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2025, 09:51:04 AM »
If the groove needs cleaning always a new seal and ANY makings on pisto replace it, you only have one neck and brakes keep it intact
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