Topic: Seeking alternative to genuine "Gordon" frame kit

[rangerdave1]

Seeking alternative to genuine "Gordon" frame kit.

Reason being that it looks like there is none in stock.. I see Carpy's has a similar kit and Also Cycle X.. Anyone have any experience with either one of these? They are a bit different but same concept.

Also, What most people's thoughts on Brass swingarm bushings versus needle bearings? Any advantages to either one?

https://carpyscaferacers.com/shop/shop-our-store/motorcycle-parts-accessories/honda-cb500-cb550-cb750-parts-upgrades/frame-adapter-honda/
http://www.cyclexchange.net/frame__end.htm

Dave

[754]

There is kits that require no welding, and can be installed in a hour or two.
 And they are far lighter.  Also once you start welding pieces in its far harder to ever restore the frame back to stock.

[calj737]

Also once you start welding pieces in its far harder to ever restore the frame back to stock.

Not really. Whether you use a welded or non-welded kit, you would still have to re-weld the original tube sections back in. If you used a welded kit, the only difference in work would be to taper the slugs to allow new tube sections to be fitted prior to the welding. And having those slugs, the newly replaced sections would actually be stronger than a stock restore without them.

[Stev-o]

+1 on the weldless kit, I have one of Franks on my K3...
[my bike came with a cut frame]

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170985.25.html

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I only had the Gordon's but Frank's weldless kit looks great.

[754]

Also once you start welding pieces in its far harder to ever restore the frame back to stock.

Not really. Whether you use a welded or non-welded kit, you would still have to re-weld the original tube sections back in. If you used a welded kit, the only difference in work would be to taper the slugs to allow new tube sections to be fitted prior to the welding. And having those slugs, the newly replaced sections would actually be stronger than a stock restore without them.

 On earlier bikes that tend to be higher value, there is a natural reluctance to modify the frame, it can affect value.
 To use the weld in kits you have to remove sections that then  are replaced with the welded joint.
 To reverse this, you would have to remove the welded joint, then add 2 pcs ON EACH frame tube, then line it up straight, weld 4joints, then smooth it off and try to get it to look straight.
On the weldless kit, if you cut it  properly, only the width of the saw blade is removed , 2 cuts per tube.
To reverse that, insert frame section, clamp using V's or section of angle iron, start tacking.....and its going to be very near to straight. And it will be a quick process..
 Once you start having to add 4 pieces of tubing and line them up straight,  it will never be quick.
 Your choice..
 The other thing is weight.  The weld in kits can weigh up to 4 times what a weldless does, and trust me adding weight, won't make your bike faster..

[lowriderbud]

I made my own frame kit from 1" conduit and stainless 1/4-20 screws and nylock nuts.  Works Great...

Later, Bud...

[calj737]

Also once you start welding pieces in its far harder to ever restore the frame back to stock.

Not really. Whether you use a welded or non-welded kit, you would still have to re-weld the original tube sections back in. If you used a welded kit, the only difference in work would be to taper the slugs to allow new tube sections to be fitted prior to the welding. And having those slugs, the newly replaced sections would actually be stronger than a stock restore without them.

 On earlier bikes that tend to be higher value, there is a natural reluctance to modify the frame, it can affect value.
 To use the weld in kits you have to remove sections that then  are replaced with the welded joint.
 To reverse this, you would have to remove the welded joint, then add 2 pcs ON EACH frame tube, then line it up straight, weld 4joints, then smooth it off and try to get it to look straight.
On the weldless kit, if you cut it  properly, only the width of the saw blade is removed , 2 cuts per tube.
To reverse that, insert frame section, clamp using V's or section of angle iron, start tacking.....and its going to be very near to straight. And it will be a quick process..
 Once you start having to add 4 pieces of tubing and line them up straight,  it will never be quick.
 Your choice..
 The other thing is weight.  The weld in kits can weigh up to 4 times what a weldless does, and trust me adding weight, won't make your bike faster..

Poppycock! Simply cut the lap joint off, weld a piece of tube in between. Done. 4 1” round welds. Same as with a weldless kit. Piece of cake.

[754]

Are you taking leaving upper triangle brace out ?
 Yeah sawing of 4 cuts in 1 inch tubing, then sawing 2 new pieces, then fitting them, is always faster ..right ?...

[BPellerine]

go weldless dave,far easier and no welding.bill

[calj737]

Are you taking leaving upper triangle brace out ?
 Yeah sawing of 4 cuts in 1 inch tubing, then sawing 2 new pieces, then fitting them, is always faster ..right ?...

Installing a welded kit requires the same amount of machine work. You’re either matching half laps or your “clamps”.

Removing a welded kit or a weldless kit is just about the same. The only difference is cutting of the lapped joint for the section. Else, it’s as simple as welding back in 2 new tubes. When done, both will be imperceptible from stock.

[scottly]

Are you taking leaving upper triangle brace out ?
 Yeah sawing of 4 cuts in 1 inch tubing, then sawing 2 new pieces, then fitting them, is always faster ..right ?...

Installing a welded kit requires the same amount of machine work. You’re either matching half laps or your “clamps”.

Removing a welded kit or a weldless kit is just about the same. The only difference is cutting of the lapped joint for the section. Else, it’s as simple as welding back in 2 new tubes. When done, both will be imperceptible from stock.

? No "matching" with the clamps. Cut the tubes, slide the clamps over the tubes, put the frame section in place, slide the clamps over the cut, tighten the screws, done. To permanently remove the kit, remove the clamps, position the frame section, weld, done. Also, the old weld-in kit is now junk, while the weldless kit is still usable for another bike

[calj737]

Installing a welded kit requires the same amount of machine work. You’re either matching machining half laps or your “clamps”.

Removing a welded kit or a weldless kit is just about the same. The only difference is cutting of the lapped joint for the section. Else, it’s as simple as welding back in 2 new tubes. When done, both will be imperceptible from stock.

? No "matching" with the clamps. Cut the tubes, slide the clamps over the tubes, put the frame section in place, slide the clamps over the cut, tighten the screws, done. To permanently remove the kit, remove the clamps, position the frame section, weld, done. Also, the old weld-in kit is now junk, while the weldless kit is still usable for another bike
[/quote]
Read my post. It’s the same amount of machine work. It’s the same amount of welding repair to restore to stock (something Frank said otherwise). Personally, I could care less which style someone uses, and if they remove a frame kit to restore to “stock” then the loss of a couple pieces of round stock costs about $5. Who gives a sh!T that they’re not “reusable” 

[scottly]

 

[seanbarney41]

 

[rangerdave1]

Thanks for the info everyone. Regarding keeping it original, that's not a concern to me as I just cut off a few pounds of tabs and the rear passenger peg mounts. This bike is never going back to original.

Weldless seems to be the popular choice and will likely be the way I go.

Thanks for the info

Dave

 

[Don R]

 I got an original Gordon's kit way back when but I bored mine part way through to reduce weight .  Still plenty strong. The local honda shop owner had a stroker big bore engine with a turbo, he rode that thing at the drags and on the street. With the bars cut out never had a problem.

[PeWe]

Franks kit must make it much easier to go back to stock.
The only missing material is the thickness of the saw blade, perfect to fill with the weld.
Gordon's kit and similar must remove rather long parts of the frame where the bolts and frame kit sit instead of the frame.
I have one kit from Gordon I planned to use on my slow ongoing K2 build. A PO has already cut the frame, not how I should have done it so Franks kit is fitted on that frame too since I started to think about going back to stock possibilities. That build will get stock look and stock engine.

I did not need to cut anything this time, only fit the clamps outside. I need to fit the triangular part brackets though. PO has drilled holes like a drunk. I have to make own brackets that match those badly drilled holes.

My K6 has Franks kit since a few years. I tested 3 different cams  in a few days earlier this year, impossible if i should been forced to pull engine for each change. So much to remove. Enough with tank, valve cover and lift cam. Remove point plate to mount timing wheel. Then need to set ignition again after timing the new cam. Minor fine tuning only.

[Don R]

 Plusses and minuses, pick your poison. 

[slikwilli420]

Too much going on with the Gordon kit that makes it look gaudy in my opinion. Get 4 sets of interlocking tube joints, cut the frame and remove enough tube to make room for the joints, assemble on the bike, tightening down the joints to one another (I lube threads so things come out easier) and weld it up. Don't dump a ton of heat into welding and be sure to move around a bit so things don't move too much. I had great success with mine and now unless you look for it, you might miss it, whereas other options presented are very obvious and (again, my opinion only) far less attractive/amateur looking.

[calj737]

Too much going on with the Gordon kit that makes it look gaudy in my opinion. Get 4 sets of interlocking tube joints, cut the frame and remove enough tube to make room for the joints, assemble on the bike, tightening down the joints to one another (I lube threads so things come out easier) and weld it up. Don't dump a ton of heat into welding and be sure to move around a bit so things don't move too much. I had great success with mine and now unless you look for it, you might miss it, whereas other options presented are very obvious and (again, my opinion only) far less attractive/amateur looking.

+1

[slikwilli420]

Good example here:

http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/chromoly-interlocking-tube-clamps.html

1" for 0.065" wall tubing available and ready to weld in.

[calj737]

Good example here:

http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/chromoly-interlocking-tube-clamps.html

1" for 0.065" wall tubing available and ready to weld in.

Those are a helluva deal! $32?! Sheesh, they take me hours to make on the mill and lathe 

[slikwilli420]

Good example here:

http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/chromoly-interlocking-tube-clamps.html

1" for 0.065" wall tubing available and ready to weld in.

Those are a helluva deal! $32?! Sheesh, they take me hours to make on the mill and lathe 

I was thinking the same thing! And x4 its still in the price range of other kits. Hard to beat the clean look and access they provide.

[stou]

I used Frank's kit on my bike and it was really easy and fast to do the job.