Author Topic: 73 350 Four  (Read 3889 times)

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Offline MarkVMod0

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73 350 Four
« on: November 05, 2018, 08:53:53 PM »
I've been riding Honda fours since about 1974 with my first being a CB750. Strayed into the Honda CBX and have a few of them laying around and one on the lift for restoration. I met Nils through the ICOA site and once I retired I have become fortunate enough to be allowed in Nils shop at Restocycle. I was there a month or so ago and saw a little 350 four in the storage area. Nils asked if I wanted it; and oh yes I did, and he gave me this cool little four.

I towed her home and my wife immediately declared it hers. I said you really aren't going to like this bike; she already has her own CBX, Honda Hawk 650GT, and BMW R1200R, but she thought it was just to cute.

Now I am doing what Nils calls a deep clean, his talk for just shy of a total restore. First things first, will it run? Pulled the carbs and went through those, bolted them up and she fired up with the first kick...wow! Ran the little beast a bit to be sure she wasn't going to blow blue smoke and all was fine so now I am into the deep clean but I did send the frame an swingarm out for powder coating.

As I go along with this project I'll post up the progress.

Offline lash

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2018, 02:21:31 AM »
Any idea where you could get stock repop pipes for these? I would love to do a restore on one if I could find some pipies.
Analog mind in a digital world..

Offline Prospect

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2018, 05:26:08 AM »
What a great looking bike!  Deep cleaning is the way to go.  Keep it original. 
Current Bikes

1969 CB750  Sandcast #256
1971 CB750K1
1972 CB750K1
1975 CB400F
1975 GL1000 Goldwing
1954 Harley Davidson Panhead
1957 Harley Davidson Panhead

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Offline Can550

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2018, 05:43:43 AM »
Any idea where you could get stock repop pipes for these? I would love to do a restore on one if I could find some pipies.
I know a friend of mine bought repro pipes from davidsilver. They were about 13-1400CAD


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Offline WhyNot2

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2018, 06:25:17 AM »
I just added these pipes, they sound great.

Delkevic pipes
If it ain't raining, I'm riding.....~~{iii}?~~prost

If it sounds like I know what I'm talking about, it's because I cut and pasted from someone else.

Offline CrashBar

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2018, 08:41:44 AM »
Bike looks to be all there except for the 4 into 4 pipes.  A good cleaning and it will be beautiful.

Pipes are here.  https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB350-FOUR/part_42369/

I found mine on ebay, original take offs in someone's attic, picked them up to save the shipping.  Cost me more than the bike did but worth every penny.

« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 01:51:12 AM by CrashBar »
....to trade in these wings on some wheels...

2017.5 BMW R1200GS
1973 CB350F
1978 CB550K
1973 TR5T

Offline lash

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2018, 08:49:43 AM »
Thanks for the link. Guess I should start looking for the bike!
Analog mind in a digital world..

Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2018, 09:10:22 AM »
These are great bikes.

One exhaust fix is stock 400F pipes. They don't requrie rejetting, but they do require a few other mods: 400F pegs, shift linkage and rear brake lever, and a 550F kicker to clear the pegs. The pegs set your feet back about 6 inches, which I like as I have lower bars. A lot cheaper than getting stock pipes, but I have to admit I dig the 4-4 350F pipes too.

Offline MarkVMod0

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2018, 05:28:12 PM »
The wee 350f is now a conglomeration of parts. Today was spent degreasing the engine followed by a good soda blasting. Tomorrow I'll scrub the engine and prep it for painting. I would like to get the 4/4 pipes from DSS but they are pricey. I saw a set of 4/4 Mivv but haven't located a set so in the meantime I'll probably go with a MAC 4/1 .

Offline MarkVMod0

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2018, 04:39:30 PM »
Engine cleaned of baked on grease and oil, soda blasted and painted. Polished the valve adjuster covers and fork lowers. Took some time to massage the corrosion and gouges to get a nice polished finish.

Offline Can550

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2018, 02:00:02 PM »
Looks beautiful
Well done


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Offline MarkVMod0

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2018, 05:01:29 PM »
Thank You CAN550!

Going payday to payday on this project. Retirement is great but there is no ability to pick up overtime for these projects. If I earn more than $17,000 a year the government takes $1 for every $2 dollars I earn over the $17,000 threshold. Sucks but it's the price one pays to retire before age 66.


I have been pretty busy with refurbishing parts and while breaking down the wheels I noticed the rear rim was a 1.60 x 18 and not a 1.85 x 18. Iv'e done some searching and can't find any info indicating the 1973 CB450 Four ever came with the 1.60 rim. Has anyone here noticed this?

The wheel hubs and front disc are cleaned up. Hubs are awaiting bearins and seals then rims and spokes. Going to give wheel lacing a stab!





 

Offline Can550

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2018, 05:03:37 PM »
Hubs look just beautiful
What’s the process involved in achieving this finish?


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Offline HondaMan

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2018, 05:29:45 PM »
What are you going to do with the old pipes?
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Offline Robbo

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2018, 05:46:58 PM »
Thank You CAN550!

Going payday to payday on this project. Retirement is great but there is no ability to pick up overtime for these projects. If I earn more than $17,000 a year the government takes $1 for every $2 dollars I earn over the $17,000 threshold. Sucks but it's the price one pays to retire before age 66.


I have been pretty busy with refurbishing parts and while breaking down the wheels I noticed the rear rim was a 1.60 x 18 and not a 1.85 x 18. Iv'e done some searching and can't find any info indicating the 1973 CB450 Four ever came with the 1.60 rim. Has anyone here noticed this?

The wheel hubs and front disc are cleaned up. Hubs are awaiting bearins and seals then rims and spokes. Going to give wheel lacing a stab!
My 73 has a 185B x 18W DID rear rim.  I believe they all came that way.


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1973 CB350 Four, 1975 CB550K

Offline MarkVMod0

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2018, 05:59:27 PM »
Hey guys, the old pipes look to be Mac 4/2. Sound nice but are heavily rusted. I'll probably spring for the 4/4 repro pipes from DSS, they are a big outlay but will give this bike a nice look.

For the hubs I used a blast cabinet with glass beads at 75 psig. Once they were pretty clean it was time to use some 150 grit wet and then some 320 grit wet paper. Weather permitting I'll buff them out tomorrow with a white cutting/polish compound. Shooting for a nice polished look just shy of chrome, maybe use some red scotchbite for the original look but then highly polished aluminum looks awesome to.

Offline Can550

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2018, 06:08:00 PM »
I always liked hairline or brushed aluminum


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Offline stou

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2018, 03:51:46 AM »
Nice bike!
Honda CR125M1 1974
Honda CB750K7 1977
Honda TLR200 1986
OSSA TR280i Trial
KTM 890 Adventure R 2021
My CB750 build: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,174710.0.html

Offline calj737

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2018, 04:06:27 AM »
I'm curious, did you disassemble the engine before soda blasting? If not, you MUST flush it well, especially the oil galleys. Once engine oil comes into contact with soda residue, it will turn to congealed goo and stop oil flow.

There are several oil galley plugs, most are a PITA to remove, but you really, really need to do so. Rinse/flush the motor with Kerosene or some type of solvent. It does not matter how well you think you plugged all the orifices, soda material will have infiltrated your engine.

Grab some sacrificial oil and cycle that through the engine after flushing, then drain it. Repeat. Once you are certain you have full, proper flow, refill it with quality oil. And of course, chase all threads with a tap too.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline MarkVMod0

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2018, 06:15:35 PM »
Right on! Have done several engines with soda blasting and have always flushed with kerosene and dropped the oil pan to check for debris. So far, knock on wood, I haven't had any issues. I have disassembled a few engines that had water react with the acids in the oil and disintegrate magnesium oil pick ups....now that's nasty!

Hoping this little 350 comes out nice. I usually pull and disassemble the engine but this one ran so nice that I just couldn't justify the extra bucks for a rebuild. If the clocks are right it has 18,000 miles on it. Still trying to figure out why there was a 1.6 inch rim on the rear.

Worked over the hubs and rear brake backing plate today. Think I'll stay with the polished look. I tried to get the stock rims presentable but the rust spots were to deep.
 

Offline Can550

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2018, 06:26:03 PM »
Wow
No words to express
Amazing
Would you like to share the process


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Offline MarkVMod0

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2018, 05:51:01 PM »
HAHA! You really don't want to get into polishing if you can afford to have a shop do it. It's tedious, time consuming, wears ones fingers to the bone, gets black dust everywhere including on ones face and is just plain miserable job. If I wasn't on a fixed income you can bet every part of mine would go to a shop for polishing!

There are a number of threads here on polishing and all are very good . There is a ton of info on the net to.

If you wish to take on polishing aluminum get the biggest HP electric motor you can. I have a 2hp that will carry an 8 inch polishing wheel. The small HF polisher works okay but struggles with a six inch wheel. It does pull a 3 inch wheel pretty good. Then get some buffing wheels. I like the loose stitched wheels for 90% of my operations. Get some polishing compound. I start with a high abrasive then work to the final fine grain like a white or green compound.

It's important to massage out the nicks, dings, scratches and corrosion from the part. What 45 y/o bike doesn't have corrosion on the aluminum covers! An 80 grit is a good start, hand sand until you get a real nice uniformly bright surface with no discoloration. Discolored areas are usually the corrosion, it can be very deep! I have never filed or sanded through a cover yet. Use a file for deep gouges then use 80 grit to smooth out the file marks. As you use files or sand paper try to maintain the contour of the part; you don't want wavy areas.

Once you have achieved a uniform bright finish with the 80 grit move on to 100 grit and keep working to 500 grit, you can work all the way to 1500 grit if you prefer. As you progress you will likely see imperfection in the aluminum manifest, not much you can do here; you could try sanding them out which works about 33% of the time. I can usually get those discolored areas to brighten up during the cutting operation with a black compound and fine tuned during the polishing phase.

Sanding is an important step in polishing, time spent sanding will pay off in the finished product as it means less time working the buffer and a better finish. Like painting; the prep work makes the difference between a pro job and an okay job.

When you get the surface sanded to a uniform shine then you can polish with the buffer.  Wear eye protection, a mask and heavy gloves.  Choose the compound to start with; I either start with a fast cut compound and get the part smoothed then move to a medium cut compound. My final compound is a white fine that presents a high luster polished look. I have used a green compound some success but the white compound works 99% of the time.

In the initial stages with a cutting compound the part will get extremly hot to hold, try to carry the heat through out the process; you want to load the motor (pressing the part to be polished firmly against the buffer wheel) but not so much that it stalls or struggles to spin the buffer wheel. As you get near the high luster with the final polishing compound  carry some heat but just enough to keep the part warm and I use light to almost no pressure against the buffer wheel.

A lot of folk use one wheel for one cutting compound and change  wheels with the next compound. I used to do this as well but now I use the same wheel for coarse and medium cut compounds, for the final polish I use a fresh loose cotton wheel with the white compound.

For those nooks and crannies I use a dremel with a buffing pad, it's a real PIA.

One last tip; keep a firm grasp of the work, it will get hot and the buffer will catch the edge of the work and rip that part right out of your hand. Nothing worse than spend hours at the polisher only to have that part flug across the shop and it does so with some velocity!

Takes me about 6 hours to do a large cover.

Offline MarkVMod0

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2018, 05:59:15 PM »
One last tip. Don't overload the buffing wheel with compound.  Just hold the cutting compound against the buffer wheel for a few seconds as you get experienced you will now when it's time to apply more cutting compound.

Offline MarkVMod0

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2018, 07:09:29 PM »
My honey is a flight nurse and is working today so no turkey day here. Took the opportunity to polish out the final cover on this 350f. The cover was heavily corroded and required a lot of sanding with 80 grit progressing to 320 grit then I broke out big kahuna; a 2 hp motor with buffing wheels, this allowed me to use a heavier cutting
compound and use more pressure on the wheel. this allowed me to stop with 320 grit instead of going on to 1500 grit.

Offline Can550

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2018, 07:50:04 PM »
Are you joking that you polished it?
Looks like you had it chromed
Wow lustrous


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Offline MarkVMod0

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2018, 07:43:29 PM »
Haven't accomplished much lately but did get the engine in the frame.
I'll be going to Tucson Monday to hang out with Nils, learn a few things and to pick up the hardware I had sent to be zinc plated. Might get the body work then too as it is with the painter Nils uses for his restorations.

I buffed the alternator cover and painted the black background, just a better contrast. The covers are just set in place as I await new seals and gaskets. The engine is incredibly clean inside and very little to no varnishing.


Offline MarkVMod0

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2018, 06:48:05 PM »
Have been gone for a couple of weeks, one of them with Nils at Restocycle and as always its a blast to work there and see the bikes he is working on. It's been cold in my shop so my project is going wee bit slow but I did get some of the painted bits and parts that were zinc coated installed. In regards to having old nuts and bolts redone in white zinc I am not so sure buying new ones from Honda wouldn't be a less expensive alternative, large items like swingarm bolts, axle shafts and nuts that are NLA are the exception I believe

Offline MarkVMod0

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2019, 05:03:56 PM »
Been off the air for a bit. Had a 76 CJ5 to work on and it was no less fun than working on the 350 Four.
But it is done and I am back on the 350. Been searching for a NOS rear wheel and got excited to see one on an overseas website, a well known and reputable supplier of vintage Japanese parts. So in my excitement I bought the rim. The rear wheel on this 350 Four had a 1.60 x 18 rim and I searched to see if the 350 four ever came with that size rim. Needles to say I couldn't find anything to suggest the 350 came with a 1.60 x 18 rear rim.

So....I get the rim and lo and behold it does not have the proper DID stamp and the big giveaway was the made in Indonesia label. Went back to the website and the pic clearly showed the rim with the correct DID stamp in the center, then I saw it, the dreaded superseded part number, clicked on that and a whole new set of pictures...Arrgghh. I wrote the business but after three days of no reply I figured I wasn't going to get one. Needless to say I decided to lace it up until I could save up enough to get the right rim.

This brings another interesting issue. This rim while not having the correct stamp marks does look nice but once laced it became very difficult to get runout and wobble to specs. I studied the wheel and pondered some thoughts. First is the runout, I have it pretty close but there is an area where the wheel was butted together and welded, poor machine work here as there is a positive deflection of the dial indicator at this spot every time, the only way to fix this would be to machine the wheel true and re-chrome.

Wobble, close as in hand grenades, that's as close as I could get. I managed and overall average of .0025 deflection on the dial indicator. Studied the wheel and discover specific points that deflected the dial indicator, they were definitive points that did not change no matter how I adjusted the spokes. looked closer at these points and found dips in the lip. I suspect this is due to old dies used to mold the rims, I have no idea of the quality control there at the factory but it is not as good as when DID was making rims for Honda.

I spoke to a few others who restore bikes and their opinion mimics mine in regards to these Indonesian made DID rims.

Beautiful looking chrome, overall an okay rim but I would choose differently and had the rear rim been the correct 185 x 18 I would have had it re-chromed.

Offline MarkVMod0

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2019, 08:34:24 PM »
Today was a good day! Finished truing the wheel, installed brake shoes, rim tape, new tire with tube and new sprocket.
NOS sprocket was to expensive for my taste so I found a JT sprocket, confirmed the sprocket would fit and ordered it but once here found it did not fit. So after many measurements, fittings and some hand machining it now fits as it should and I was able to mount the wheel in the swingarm.

Then it was on to the carbs. Originally the were cleaned just to see if the bike would run, once that was confirmed they were taken apart and really cleaned up. Today the felt seals for the choke shafts came in and the assembly began.

Offline bek1966

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2019, 09:00:59 PM »
Fantastic project, thanks for sharing your progress.  I recently picked up a 74 CB350 Four with 10,500 miles from the original owner.  They're great little bikes!

Regards,
Brad
1971 CB750 K1 - Candy Gold
1971 CB500 K0 - Star Light Gold
1974 CB350 F1 - Glory Blue Black

Pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin

Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2019, 10:19:28 PM »
The Indonesian stuff is a roll of the dice. I'm in Indonesia now on a work trip, and come here pretty often. I used to by (and make) stuff here, and they have a lot of old Japanese stuff that is marked OEM but manufactured in Indonesia. Some good stuff, some... not so.

I bet you could find a used OEM rim in good enough shape (or if you wanted to, rechrome it). In AZ some of the bikes' chrome was pretty much immaculate despite 40+ years of sitting.

Offline markreimer

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Re: 73 350 Four
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2019, 10:35:57 PM »
This is such a satisfying project to follow along with. Were those carbs vapor blasted?


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