Topic: How do you get the cam chain on/off the sprocket?

[juntjoo]

https://imgur.com/a/wumX0bJ

I currently have it on the sprocket with the cam shaft slid through but I can't quite get the first bolt through to connect the sprocket to the shaft and I think I might need to readjust it anyway. Don't ask how I attempted to get the chain on correctly in the first place. First time doing this and it's quite a hairy situation. Couldn't understand the Clymer instructions.

I just watched this vid of a 450, but looks probably similar:

and looks like he's got way more slack than me. 2 questions :

1) might my chain be positioned as to be shortened somehow? I couldn't see down there but it turned with the crankshaft. Maybe it's connected to a higher point around the shaft down there tightening it? Seems unlikely so..

2) he didn't check, or inform the viewer of any step to align the chain somehow. I've got it at TDC 1-4 and the camshaft mark on the right end of shaft aligned. Is that all I need to worry about as far as alignment?

Oh I bet that tensioner thing that tightened up prior to install has something to do with this... Excuse me. This is all new and apparently I'm slow at figuring thimgs out...

[bryanj]

What bike?

[juntjoo]

What bike?

Nighthawk 650.

[754]

 Can't get the bolt thru, as in the sprocket has to turn a bit on the cam?
 Is the sprocket up on the shoulder ?

[juntjoo]

Can't get the bolt thru, as in the sprocket has to turn a bit on the cam?
 Is the sprocket up on the shoulder ?

No, so far haven't managed to get it that high. I was thinking/hoping that once I get the 1st bolt I somehow turn it over to the 2nd. But yeah, it's not even on the shoulder hence I can't get bolt through. I just know somethings wrong lol. Thanks

This is why I just want to know how to get the chain on and off which would be a better start at this.

[juntjoo]

No, the tensioner wasn't tightened. How does it work anyway?

[pjlogue]

If you can just remove the tensioner to be sure all tension is off the chain.  If your tensioner is frozen it will not retract properly.

-P.

[juntjoo]

If you can just remove the tensioner to be sure all tension is off the chain.  If your tensioner is frozen it will not retract properly.

-P.

I don't believe I ever removed it while head was on. Just when I had it out. You sure I can take it out and not have problems putting it back in? Thanks.  I'm looking for info/videos on cam chain work. No one has my bike it seems

[754]

Well the tensioner has to be backed off. And it's hard to tell if its in the motor,
Are you doing this without a manual ?

[juntjoo]

Well the tensioner has to be backed off. And it's hard to tell if its in the motor,
Are you doing this without a manual ?

Yes, and step 20 is what you're talking about

"loosen cam chain tensioner" https://imgur.com/a/APReYU1

And I did that back when I removed the head. At least I think. It says to pull it "up" which I'm assuming means push the seat back since actually moving the part up would be impossible to do and keep the bolt and hole aligned right? Anyway, I released just earlier tonight thinking it would help. I'll have another look at it. Might be a challenge now with the head on to recompress it. Does tightening that bolt accomplish the same thing? Sorry I'm so dumb with this.

...

http://partstream.arinet.com/Mobile/ACrA2nDmW-_-JVhDz3cH1VNvMhSn45fSDmeEBOSpjHuFYOqNlOJrndDPbKHWprofA4__tULB6DMFF1Iw1Aqx-sVF45MEjVDnQtHMDP1Z-nk1.html

Right here it shows the tensioner parts and the bolt the book is referring to is the top one, the one in the head, not block which is the one I was tightening. Whoops. Okay, I'll have to find the bolt. I don't even understand  how that bolt works. I remember taking it out but you don't have to know how anything works taking it off.  Okay, I'll figure this part out...

No, wrong again. I was on the right bolt according to the book. Top one adjusts tension, bottom tightens. And now I remember adjusting it just to adjust it before working on the valves

[Scott S]

 No, bolt (nut, actually) #9 adjusts the tension.

 Juntjoo, you just commented on one of my YouTube videos.  I have a good factory service manual for the 550 at home that talks a bit about installing the tensioner.  Its essentially the same for the 650. I'll try to scan those pages but, unfortunately,  I'm on a huge stretch of overtime right now and time is extremely tight.

 There's a cup in the lower case. A perch. The bottom of the tensioner must sit in that cup or you will not get proper tension.
 But....that's probably not what's causing you trouble with the cam gear. It's a very fiddly process even when done right and is kind of hard to describe.
 You have to make sure the pistons are where they're supposed to be,  the cam chain tensioner is where its supposed to be, the slot on the cam is where it's supposed to be,  and the holes for the cam gear screws are where they're supposed to be.
 I've done it many times and it is really hard to describe in words.

[Scott S]

 And, yes, that 400F video is the same idea, but I've NEVER had one slip on that easy!

[juntjoo]

And, yes, that 400F video is the same idea, but I've NEVER had one slip on that easy!

Oh that was you? Okay, cool. Nice bike. Forgive me if I got you wrong. Saw a couple vids, too tired to check but I think you ended up going back in to readjust the tensioner.  And I still can't even find evidence it's off somehow to help justify me 'going back in'. Don't think I can handle another trip down lol. But you don't even think so either. Well if you get a chance(or anyone) pls check out current vid

... and see if you notice anything off. Til then I'm gonna just play with it carefully like a rubicks cube here and there and cross my fingers

[juntjoo]

So this "perch" thing... You can accidentally put it in off the perch and the head will connect perfectly to the block and you wouldn't know from looking down above and you wouldn't have heard or felt anything funny? So it would be kinda bent then maybe in their out of place?

[Scott S]

 See if this helps.

[juntjoo]

See if this helps.

Thanks. I guess I gotta figure out if I need to go back in or not. I don't feel the chain bound by anything obvious. But if I can't manage to get the chain on I guess I'll have no other option. Will try again later..

[754]

Does the chain turn with the crank ?

[juntjoo]

Does the chain turn with the crank ?

Yep

[juntjoo]

See if this helps.

Okay, so in your last pic it does indeed say get one bolt through THEN rotate engine to get the other bolt in? I'm assuming that's when the shaft gets magically lifted into the shoulder? That's my next attempt....

[Scott S]

 Read the center pic. The part about "to aid camshaft installation...". They say pull up on the tensioner, but if you just "flatten" the tensioner and then temporarily tighten the lock nut, that gives you some slack.
 It helps to have a second set of hands. Slip the gear on the chain and then slide the cam through. You have to twist and turn the cam a bit along the way. Once the cam is through, set it in the head and make sure the mark on the end is lined up with the head and the bolt holes line up. If not, the timing is off. You can carefully drop the sprocket back down on the cam and rotate the teeth in the chain (this is where the helper is nice) and get the sprocket lined up properly and the mark on the end of the cam correct.

[DaveBarbier]

This is what people are talking about regarding the bottom of the tensioner.

Open the oil pan and have a look.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=147178.0

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,149209.msg1702943.html#msg1702943

[Scott S]

 Yep.... that's exactly what was wrong on my 650. The P.O. must have done it because I hadn't been in that deep at the time.
 Juntjoo, while that might cause you to lose a little slack in the cam chain, it shouldn't prevent you from getting the cam installed.  But would you like to get it all together only to find out the tensioner isn't seated correctly?

[DaveBarbier]

What I do to get more slack from the tensioner: First, loosen the lock nut and then stick a bit flat head screw driver down the cam tunnel and press the plastic bow of the tensioner flat against the head/jugs. Then tighten the lock nut again. This keeps the bow away from the chain and allows it to maintain it’s full length. I then put the chain on the sprocket and lift the sprocket on the cam. I have used a screw driver to lightly pry the sprocket onto the cam. Didn’t hurt a thing. The sprocket should be so close to going on so lifting it a hair is fine.

[juntjoo]

Yep.... that's exactly what was wrong on my 650. The P.O. must have done it because I hadn't been in that deep at the time.
 Juntjoo, while that might cause you to lose a little slack in the cam chain, it shouldn't prevent you from getting the cam installed.  But would you like to get it all together only to find out the tensioner isn't seated correctly?

Okay thanks. But why do we think my tensioner is off again? Either way, I see from the various threads people are checking from under the engine. I'll be removing the oil pan either way but I don't see how I'll be able to see that far up there through the crankcase /crank shaft(?).

[DaveBarbier]

Look at the links I posted.