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Author Topic: '76 Honda CB550F: Suggestions for Better Battery Life?  (Read 2775 times)

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Offline MauiK3

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Re: '76 Honda CB550F: Suggestions for Better Battery Life?
« Reply #125 on: January 08, 2019, 08:20:34 am »
Can't we all just get along?
I'll add that I keep any equipment and vehicles that are used less than daily on a battery tender. Keeps the batteries fresh. If the 500 was on one each night it would help make up for the commute.
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Offline calj737

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Re: '76 Honda CB550F: Suggestions for Better Battery Life?
« Reply #126 on: January 08, 2019, 09:40:16 am »
Can't we all just get along?
I'll add that I keep any equipment and vehicles that are used less than daily on a battery tender. Keeps the batteries fresh. If the 500 was on one each night it would help make up for the commute.
Keeping a battery on a tender regularly is not a good practice. Tenders fail regularly, and when they do, your battery gets toasted. Better to periodically recharge your battery if left sitting for extended periods. Say, 1-2 days each month only. This avoids overheating the battery or damaging the battery.

Or, better still, ride the darn things!  :D
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: '76 Honda CB550F: Suggestions for Better Battery Life?
« Reply #127 on: January 08, 2019, 10:20:49 am »
I am a bit confused... are you referring to the same test as scottly, wherein I am unplugging the 2 field coil wires and testing the resistance between the white and green wires connected to the field coil (like in the picture)? I thought I was looking for it to read 0L for open line.

I am having a hard time getting a good clean reading as it changes constantly depending on where the probes touch the bullet tip of the wire. Maybe they need cleaning? Also I’m not sure if this matters but with the key on there is plenty of magnetism to hold a paper clip to the casing of the stator.

Thanks!
Andy
I'm thinking you may be more than a bit confused.  I don't want to speak for Scottly.  Maybe you'd prefer to wait for his response.

Of course you clean the bullets....AND the sockets!  Corrosion is resistive and increases the measured resistance!  The only alternative is to pierce the corrosion coating with a very pointy probe.  That will gain you a better measurement possibility.  But, unless you clean the corrosion coating, it won't help alternator function in circuit.

IIRC, On the 550, there is only one wire available that reaches from the field coil to the regulator, the White wire.  The green wire at the regulator attaches to the frame/motor and the field coil has its functionally "green" wire attached to the motor case.

The field coil is exactly that.  A coil of wire with two ends.  One is connected through bullet style connectors under the drive sprocket cover.  Yes, that one can become resistive, also.  So check it.

The "logically green" wire of the field coil connects to the green at the regulator via the motor case -> to frame -> to the harness green wire connection.  If the motor isn't electrically connected to the frame (think paint insulation), the regulator can't properly drive the alternator field coil.

If you expect the alternator/regulator to do their job, the regulator must "see" a field coil load of ~4.8 ohms at its terminals, not 10 ohms. 

So, either correct the connectivity between field coil and regulator, or measure the field coil as near to the field coil proper and determine it is actually 10 ohms (proven failure) or 4.8 ohms (which would prove your issue is elsewhere than the coil itself).

And finally, if your test equipment is lying to you, you aren't ever going to make any sense of this issue.  So, take steps as outlined previously, to gain confidence that your measurements aren't further confusing the resolution of your charging troubles.

Carry on...


Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline scottly

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Re: '76 Honda CB550F: Suggestions for Better Battery Life?
« Reply #128 on: January 08, 2019, 06:24:32 pm »
Lloyd, perhaps you missed that the 10 Ohm reading was between one of the field coil wires and ground?
Andy, you did need the new reg/rect, regardless of what else is wrong.
Let's revisit testing the field coil. First, there is always confusion between the stator and the field. Here is a pic a of a 400 stator and field; your 550 is similar. The stator is on the left, and the field is on the right. This is to give you an idea of what's on the other end of the bullets.
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Offline scottly

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Re: '76 Honda CB550F: Suggestions for Better Battery Life?
« Reply #129 on: January 08, 2019, 06:37:03 pm »
A set of test leads will alligator clips (AKA roach clips) greatly simplifies using a meter, and the teeth of the clips can get a good connection on the bullets.
First, connect both meter leads together, so you know how much error your meter has. This meter shows .2 ohms when it should read zero. Other meters I have read as much as 1.4 ohms.
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Offline scottly

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Re: '76 Honda CB550F: Suggestions for Better Battery Life?
« Reply #130 on: January 08, 2019, 06:44:15 pm »
Next, connect the two meter leads to the two field coil wires. This 750 coil reads 7.2 ohms, so 7.2 minus .2 = 7 ohms, which is in spec for a 750. Yours should be 4.8 +/- 10 %.
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Offline scottly

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Re: '76 Honda CB550F: Suggestions for Better Battery Life?
« Reply #131 on: January 08, 2019, 06:55:29 pm »
The continuity test from one of the coil leads to ground is shown is this pic. One of the meter leads is clipped to the body of the coil, which is grounded to the motor when installed. The windings of the coil are insulated from the body, and any reading indicates the insulation is compromised. If you have an auto-ranging meter, and your fingers are touching the probes, you will get false readings. The test leads allow hands-free measurements.
 
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Offline magner

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Re: '76 Honda CB550F: Suggestions for Better Battery Life?
« Reply #132 on: January 08, 2019, 10:51:03 pm »
https://imgur.com/a/HqAyLpI Thanks for the helpful pics; here are my corresponding pics! Looks like 1.2 ohms resistance on just the alligator clips, and 5.3 on the 2 field coil wires, so 4.1 on the field coil. I get no continuity between hound and either field coil wire.

Offline scottly

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Re: '76 Honda CB550F: Suggestions for Better Battery Life?
« Reply #133 on: January 09, 2019, 07:04:06 pm »
The 4.1 ohms is still below the spec in my manual of 4.9 +/- 10%, which at the low side would be 4.41. I think I mentioned before that running the field coil current WFO all the time *may* have over-heated it?
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« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 07:07:14 pm by scottly »
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Offline RAF122S

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Re: '76 Honda CB550F: Suggestions for Better Battery Life?
« Reply #134 on: January 12, 2019, 04:07:29 pm »
If running it WFO overheated it, then it may have exceeded the thermal limits of the wire's coating. Magnet wire uses various types of coating and I once had learned about it but I've forgotten those details. The Temp of the wire can sometimes be 150C and other wire is made to withstand 165C or higher. Yeah, pretty hot!  But, in the center of a winding if it builds to that temp it will breach the winding and then you end up with a short which could account for the lower reading.
All of this is merely speculation. Bottom line is it is out of spec as Scottly pointed out and better safe than sorry, replacing the coil is a wise move or a move towards results which should work when everything is within spec.

David
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Offline magner

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Re: '76 Honda CB550F: Suggestions for Better Battery Life?
« Reply #135 on: February 06, 2019, 06:50:21 pm »
https://imgur.com/a/pnB4oVv

Sorry for the radio silence, but I was too busy out riding my bike! I installed the new reg/rec with the help of you all and a family friend, and my battery is now charging with ease! I have been able to ride to and from work many times now, sitting in terrible traffic, and my bike has been perfectly fine. I have run into a few other small issues that might get their own thread later on, but for now I am just enjoying the bike! Thank you all so much, I honestly thought I wasn't going to be able to do it, but am proud to say I did!

Cheers,
Andy

Offline scottly

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Re: '76 Honda CB550F: Suggestions for Better Battery Life?
« Reply #136 on: February 06, 2019, 07:49:02 pm »
 8) 8) 8)
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: '76 Honda CB550F: Suggestions for Better Battery Life?
« Reply #137 on: February 07, 2019, 10:11:34 pm »
Looks a bit less frumpy with the other changes too!

可燃自転車 Kanen Jitensha Combustible Bicycle
75 CB550F codename Bloo
76/78 XS750 triple; trash can.
07 FJR1300; Horse

 

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