Topic: Painting my frame

[jakec]

1/1/2019 - I changed the thread title because I didn't want someone to think this was a guide. I was originally hoping a guide existed, this is me figuring it out.

I'm about to paint the frame from my 400F. From the helpful advice here I know to use the Rustoleum black appliance epoxy. This is to achieve the right level of semi gloss. I've also gotten help here on high temp duplicolor paint for the engine, so I know what to do there as well. But I'm wondering about the other parts of the bike. Like the upper and lower fork clamps. On my bike they are a straight satin black. But on my CL175 they are a semi gloss that matches the frame.

I also wonder about the hubs and the fork lowers. I often seem them painted here on the forum, but to me they look like they are bare metal (on my bike). If the fork lowers are painted, they don't seem to be the same silver as the engine, which is what I often see used when searching restorations here on the forum.

I guess my question is does anyone have a good source of information on what parts of the bike are painted, what color/gloss, and what should just be polished?

[jakec]

Shown below are the parts I plan to paint black. Not shown are the swingarm (with Hondman at the moment), center and side stands, and the handlebar controls. (I can't get the steel tube off the brake caliper yet, it's stuck)

It seems that all of the parts are the same semi-gloss black, with the exception of the upper and lower for bridges which are a more satin black. It seems like the for bridges, or at least the top one, was clumsily repainted at one point as the paint chipped away immediately when I torqued the fork retaining screws. Same happened at the handlebar holders.

I'm curious if anyone can give advice, are there any parts shown that I shouldn't paint? Any other parts that are not the same as the frame, besides the fork bridges? Also another question, if I repaint my master cylinder, what do people do about the painted text on the lid?

[awrawr]

 I know it's not original but after i had the crankcase vapour blasted they looked sooooo nice I couldn't bear to paint any of it. I gave it a dose of ACF and will top it up after the first run up to temp.

[jlh3rd]

i know some sellers make a decal for the top of the cap on the master cylinder for some bikes. My guess is that the 400 is the same or one is made for it.....and you could get a new cap

[jakec]

Yep it looks exactly like the lower portion of the top image. Its a shame to use a decal since it seems painted now;. But I guess that's what people do. would you be able to provide the link for that?

[jlh3rd]

reproductiondecals.com...also know as diablo ......but, here's this from david silver spares.....

[jakec]

Awesome! Thanks

[jakec]

I've done some more reading about the fork lowers (since I am about to start rebuilding the forks). Seems the fork lowers are in most cases just aluminum with a clear coat. My clear coat is not turning yellow or chipping. But they don't look perfect. What is the best course of action for making them look nice and stock? Can I even out the clear coat with sanding or should I strip it and then smooth out the aluminum a bit (not polish) then do new clear?

[jlh3rd]

.... So honda clear coated these forks and what happens over the decades is that the aluminum begins to corrode under this coating.  You have to strip off this coating and then clean up the aluminum,usually by using fine grade sand paper. Yes, you can just sand the forks which strips this coating or use a stripper, your choice. I've just used sand paper. Then you polish the aluminum, to whatever luster you want. I've used 2000, 3000 grit paper as a " polishing " medium because I did not want the piece i was working on to be too shiny. I go for the stock look.
     I have never restored a bike, i have cleaned up some aluminum pieces and know a little about the process but not enough to recommend which grades of sandpaper to use. Also, I have an original, unrestored 1975 550f that i maintain original, so I have a little expertise involved in keeping this bike original.Other's can chime in here. I just know the least aggressive paper needed saves time.
I also don't use steel wool, it can leave minute bits of steel embedded in the aluminum which then creates rust spots. Hope this helps.

[jakec]

Thanks for the response on the forks. I have mine most of the way apart now and I'm inspecting the lowers. I found that they must have been polished in the past. The front (part you can see when installed on the bike) is more shiny than stock, and there is no yellowing or chipping. The backs are clearly still clear coated and it is yellowing. So I will sand them all over. I want to have a uniform stock finish, which means I need to sand the polished sides with a rougher grit, right? Any suggestion of what that might be? Still in the 1000g + range?

As for the triple clamp upper/lower question from earlier, I answered it for myself last night. I suddenly had the idea to go over and check out my roommate's bike ('75 400F in red). His clamps are painted the same and frame. That makes things easy.

I have another question, even tho this stage is far off. I know the engines were painted. I have already used the duplicolor matched color to repaint my sprocket cover which had gas leakage in the past. However I am wondering what my best course of action is, given that this bike will be ridden daily on fairly short heat cycles. My commute is only 4 miles each way. I don't want to paint the engine up only to have my paint cracking off. I have still not decided if I'm splitting the cases. If I did I suppose I would vapor blast. At that point I'm not sure if I should paint or not.

[jakec]

I did a little youtubing, and watching videos of guys taking aluminum parts to a mirror finish I think this is what I've learned:

Start at 400g unless you have bad damage to the part

Go up to 800 or 1,000g wet sanding with WD40 until the sanding marks are gone

If I go above 1,000g I think the finish would be more shiny than stock. So it's hitting the sweet spot where the sanding marks go away.

[jakec]

Started sanding the frame last night. On other parts (swingarm, center stand, side stand) I used 320 to lightly rough the metal or paint. This worked well.

On the frame the paint is for the most part acting the same, very hardy. It stands up to 220g when I am removing a spot of rust or trying to smooth out a paint chip. However the upper member of the frame, which goes under the tank, seems to have a much lower quality paint.

The paint in this area, and some other random areas like the swingarm tube, comes off VERY easily with 220g. Should I focus on removing all of this paint? Or just what comes off easily with the 220g?

[flybox1]

It could be a contaminant weakening the paint there.  You wouldnt want that to also ruin your paint job....
I stripped my whole frame down to bare metal to avoid this.
Aircraft stripper, wire wheels and brushes, and gloves.
Acetone also works well to dissolve some of the paint in hard to reach areas....and should be used liberally before primer/paint.

[jakec]

Thanks for the reply. You can see the two main areas where the paint is soft. I figured the swingarm tube could be due to oil/chain grease over the years. The main upper tube of the frame wasn't exposed to any gas as far as I would know, the tank doesn't have any leaks...

The area of the frame around the side stand was constantly wet with oil due to the crankcase oil leak, but that paint is feeling very robust in comparison to the soft spots. So I wonder what could have caused this? Anyways, I have acetone but have not been using it. I will get some more 220g tonight and go at these spots. Last night I ran out and was using sanding discs with my hand 

[calj737]

I would sand the whole thing with at least 220, maybe 150. Then wipe with Acetone, then with a paint prep suitable for the paint you’re using, then hit it with primer. Then paint.

If you have any spots, runs, or issues in the primer cost, you can always gently sand them and touch up with primer. Then your paint will be far better. Primer over the base, stock paint will help seal that layer and prevent it from peeling or bubbling away later. A top coat of Clear is up to you.

[nicks2319]

You can pop the VIN plate off easily. Those little rivet looking things aren't really rivets, they twist out. Afterwards drill the holes a tiny bit larger and pop rivet the plate back on. Those old fasteners often break and fall off.

[jakec]

Thanks for both replies. I didn't realize those pins twist out.

As for the paint I am using rustoleum black appliance enamel per the forum here. The paint says no primer needed. I did not realize I was going to need to use a primer?

[calj737]

Thanks for both replies. I didn't realize those pins twist out.

As for the paint I am using rustoleum black appliance enamel per the forum here. The paint says no primer needed. I did not realize I was going to need to use a primer?

Primer isn’t required, but it does help if you want a premium result.

[Bankerdanny]

You don't necessarily need primer if your original paint is mostly intact, although if you have bare metal anywhere I would prime before paint.

[jakec]

Gotcha. Well I used the rustoleum website and they didn't have a primer paired with the paint. But I suppose I will get a rustoleum brand primer since I definitely do have exposed steel. I think if I take acetone to this weak paint it will just wipe off. I just didn't want to do that last night because I was confused and didn't want to dive in without some input first.

[beemerbum]

For black parts other than the frame, I have satisfactory results with a paint at your friendly NAPA store. It Chassis Black part #7243. It is slightly less glossy than the Rust-oleum appliance epoxy and looks very good on the triple trees, tool tray and other black parts. I have had good luck in small areas by spraying a bit of the paint into the cap and using a fine bristle brush. No brush marks remain.

[Stev-o]

I use VHT Satin caliper paint for calipers.

And I would not clear coat aluminum, just polish it to a desired level.  It will dull in time, and can then be repolished as necessary...

[seanbarney41]

The rust oleum appliance epoxy is very good without primer...I think it sticks even better to bare steel than with a primer.  This is quite different from most any other paint so if you have never used it before, it goes against common painting knowledge that you need to use a primer.

If you do insist on priming, I suggest finding a black colored primer so that any chips or scratches might not be so obvious.

[jakec]

Steve O you think that its better to leave unpainted (clear) even tho that's how they have them from the factory? Why do you prefer not to paint?

[Stev-o]

Steve O you think that its better to leave unpainted (clear) even tho that's how they have them from the factory? Why do you prefer not to paint?

I've seen pics of the clear coat yellowing over bare aluminum, and I would not want to risk that.
My bikes stay in the garage every night, so there is really no need to coat them for the elements.  If your situation is different [?], then coating may be a better option for you.