Topic: Would it be advisable to test out coffee filters before buying pod filters?

[754]

 It is too restrictive, i proved it to myself 40 years ago.
 In the video you can hear the bike start and run pretty good then start to sound richer as it started to load up.
 Bottom line, you need more area  in the filter medium .. less restriction.
 Look at the filters  on an XR 750 racer.. they are huge..easier breathing.
 Hold the filter against your mouths with thumb and first finger forming a circle, now blow out hard.
 Then try  making a bag out of the filter and blowing hard, bet you notice the difference..

[Deltarider]

Don't despair! If you happen to have four exhausts, you may use these coffeefilters to monitor emissions at idle. The more soot, the blacker, the richer. I know, it is not what you intended, but your filters can still prove to have been a good investment. 

[juntjoo]

Thanks. Yeah. Makes sense. I'll run it again tomorrow just to be sure then order some pods.

I'm tempted to make a box shaped to fit in there easy. Should be a relatively easy project. Just use the old mm what's it called before the box, plenum(?) as a template, cut holes into whatever I decide to use,... But I'm ordering pods... Gotta try to go to sleep...


  You mean like the highly trained and educated group of engineers at Honda did? It's called an air box.

 And like you've been told multiple times already, if you INSIST on ordering pods, go ahead and pull the carbs NOW and modify the mixture screws so they are adjustable. Order a few sets of main jets (2 sizes up, 2 sizes down) and a set of vacuum gauges.
 No, we can't tell you what settings you need or what size jets.
 Doesn't that ~$50 for new intake rubbers sound attractive now?

[juntjoo]

Don't despair! If you happen to have four exhausts, you may use these coffeefilters to monitor emissions at idle. The more soot, the blacker. I know it is not what you intended, but your filters and elastic bands can still prove to have been a good investment. 

Interesting idea. Will keep it in mind

[Scott S]

 It's OK to ask dumb questions.
 It's not OK to ignore sage advice.

 Order new intake rubbers, clean the carbs and set them to stock settings, install, vacuum sync, then never touch them again.

[dave500]

ide be carefull the coffee beans don't block any passages,also if you get any gasoline in your coffee its most likely poisonous?

[Deltarider]

Aaaahh... Bean Power.

[flybox1]

[juntjoo]

So what happens if you drive around without an air filter eventually and when does it happen?

I need to go to the store. Probably a couple times before my filters arrive.

[Scott S]

 You ingest dust, dirt and debris into the engine. Possibly water if its raining that day. Over time, that leads to cylinder scoring and wear, which means, at the least, a cylinder hone and fresh rings.

 And that's not even considering the overly lean intake mixture that can make it run hot and possibly burn valves.

[juntjoo]

You ingest dust, dirt and debris into the engine. Possibly water if its raining that day. Over time, that leads to cylinder scoring and wear, which means, at the least, a cylinder hone and fresh rings.

 And that's not even considering the overly lean intake mixture that can make it run hot and possibly burn valves.

Thanks.

[juntjoo]

How many cigarettes over a humans lifetime would you equate a seven mile ride total without an air filter for my bike's life. Look, within her lifetime in gonna clean out iher bowels and change her gear ratios(do we do that? Easy? Good/not good for engine?) at some point and we're gonna laugh about that trip without an air filter and frolic as most men and their bikes do. So like what, two packs?

[Scott S]

 This reminds me of JWilde.

 "Hey guys, what do you think of this?"

 "It's not a good idea and here's why...."

 "Well, I'm going to do it anyway".

 The next day: "Hey guys....what's wrong with my bike?".

 Next thing you know you'll be telling us you're installing header wrap without removing the header "and its gonna be awesome!".

 You've been given lots of good advice in this thread and you choose to ignore it.
 Hell, I don't know why you had to remove the fuse box to install a phone mount. RAM makes dozens of different mounts and you can take power from a switched source in the headlight bucket or a fused wire run straight from the battery terminals.  But literally minutes after removing the fuse box the bike wont crank.

 I know I'm probably coming across as harsh, but why ask if its harmful to run without filtration when you've already decided what you're going to do?

[754]

I ran my bike without filters for a few years .
 Damn thing only ran from 82 thru to 07..
 Could have lasted longer I guess. .

 I mean the last few years no air cleaners..

[juntjoo]

This reminds me of JWilde.

 "Hey guys, what do you think of this?"

 "It's not a good idea and here's why...."

 "Well, I'm going to do it anyway".

 The next day: "Hey guys....what's wrong with my bike?".

 Next thing you know you'll be telling us you're installing header wrap without removing the header "and its gonna be awesome!".

 You've been given lots of good advice in this thread and you choose to ignore it.
 Hell, I don't know why you had to remove the fuse box to install a phone mount. RAM makes dozens of different mounts and you can take power from a switched source in the headlight bucket or a fused wire run straight from the battery terminals.  But literally minutes after removing the fuse box the bike wont crank.

 I know I'm probably coming across as harsh, but why ask if its harmful to run without filtration when you've already decided what you're going to do?

Well, I'm not just going off the advice I get from here and admittedly I'm reading mostly about issues but I also am reading the contrary and with my bike, in fact it seems you had some luck yourself (no?). And if it can work out for me it would be awesome and worth taking the chance. I guess. Call me clumsy. I won't argue lol. As far as airbox-less riding I figure it's either something you can do in the meantime which isn't great but not bad or it could be really bad like crap flying in if your route  is down a dirt road or sometbing. Call me careless. Careless and clumsy. I won't argue. I do have an issue with instructions. I'd I could flip a couple switches in my head and behave better so the universe harmonizes around a bit better I'd flip em. I'd have to put a little thought into though. And I do appreciate all the feedback and dumb jokes. Some are pretty good. But just cuz I don't follow doesn't mean I don't use it. All the info I get is how I calculate all my dumb moves. And sometimes I make some good ones. I still use it and yup a lot of the time it comes back to haunt me in nightmares of little avatars laughing at me as I'm buried under a pile of broken dreams in my garage/workshop/living room/bedroom... kitchen come to think of it. #$%* come to think of it everything I touch trembles in insecurity. But I get a couple gems here and there. This bike now has a life though after 30 yrs in a garage thanks to me! With a little lick I'll keep her going good for a while. Don't know if anyone's ever picked up the 92 eclipse in the background of my vids. A broken dream right there lol. Didn't mess anything up just had to quit that as i bit off way more than I could chew. Okay, done rambling. I swear I'm learning here and we'll see what I learn about pod filters. On the brights side if I fail or it's just turns out okay I'll update and further the info out there on the sunject for other people interested. I think I'm just kind of the type that likes to learn the hard way, IF I have 'to learn'. I'm a bit of an experimenter. I wish I was cooler headed and less clumsy but that's subject on its own and actually this work does help me to meditate cuz I know when I break sh&% I'm doing life wrong. Anyway, thanks for all the feedback. It helps a lot

[juntjoo]

I ran my bike without filters for a few years .
 Damn thing only ran from 82 thru to 07..
 Could have lasted longer I guess. .

Okay, that's an interesting response. Didn't expect one could do it that long without serious issues but I still won't take too many chances.

Don't ask me how my relationship is with my lawn mower. Well current one okay. But last one somehow I managed to neglect to ever change the oil. It was like something in the back of my head I chose to ignore cuz I just couldn't fit it J to my schedule. Not 'changing the oil'. Figuring out how the oil system even worked. It was my first small engine. First mower, first house. Learned my weed whacker didn't Ned to have its oil changed as it just burned it up, cuz I MIXED the fuel and oil. So I should known my lawn mower was the same as my car. Again, didn't have time /respect for my mower to figure it out. And one day after months of sputtering a hole blew out the side, two pieces flew, maybe hit lizard and a tree, and a dead piston halfway dropped out of the hole and stared in my eyes. It was horrible. And kinda fun explain to the neighbor how they must change their oil. Good times

[juntjoo]

I'm not sure how I'm gonna mount my phone. It can be anywhere to just look at it, except my tank bag cuz I have to look too far down. But it's really for recording for which I want it in the center somehow. I may mod something with the fuse cover. Ram and other companies have different solutions but I'm still figuring them out. STILL TRTING TO FIGURE OUT how to get the main tub not off my washer without spending $60 on a tool I'll only use when I take off my washer tub nut which should be never...  So I can wash my clothes (eew). Thought it was gonna be easy. Anyway..

[754]

 Nothing is easy..
 But it can be a bit easier and you will break less #$%*, if you research  the he'll out of a procedure, before you try it on a machine or device.

 Wread before you rench..

[juntjoo]

True true

[dave500]

what the #$%* am I reading?

[Old Moe Toe]

The first moto guzzi 850 le mans came out without an air filter. They did have a bit of metal mesh to keep rocks out however.

[TwoTired]

what the #$%* am I reading?

...a juntjoo blog...

[TwoTired]

Engines will run fine without air filters in purified air.  (The air filters provide purified air.)

In dusty air, the dust particles essentially sand blasts the cylinder walls when the cylinders fire under power.

When the cylinder walls lose enough metal, you lose compression/ power and generally it become a burner of oil making smoke out the exhaust.

If you ride your air filterless bike in only areas that have no dust in the air, air filters are certainly extraneous.

If you ride your bike in increasingly dust filled air, the engine will need top end work far sooner than an equivalent bike run with air filters.

Air filters are considerably less expensive (money and time) than engine mechanical work.

Some also believe insurance is unnecessary.  ...until after they file a claim.

Cheers,

[juntjoo]

I'm still reading about pod filters. I'm learning slowly but pls bare with me.

Extra air = leaner running. I get that. I can check my plugs for this. Supposedly that can kill an engine over time. How does less fuel cause that?

And what should this equate to with performance? Sluggishness at higher rpms? Hesitation? due to insufficient fuel/O2?

I noticed this then turned my pilot screws out a bit more each(yes I previously cut those emission ears/locks off when rebuilding carbs) and I think that helped. I'll check plugs soon. Still waiting on filters to arrive.

If I've solved the higher rpms performance issue and plugs are correct color am I good? And if not is that when I order a set of "stage 1" jets?

How many turns max on the pilot screws is too much and I should move on to the next step?

Thanks!

[TwoTired]

Extra air = leaner running. I get that. I can check my plugs for this. Supposedly that can kill an engine over time. How does less fuel cause that?

Common misconception.  You *may* get extra air near redline operation W.R.T. the stock induction.  But, mostly the entire operating range goes lean because you placed the carbs near the air inlet and closer to outside air pressure.  Fuel flows when differential pressure exists across the metering orifice (fuel jet). Since it is outside air pressure that is pushing the fuel through the jet , putting the jet exit closer to the outside source reduces fuel flow, because there is now less differential pressure.  To compensate, the jet must get larger to restore the fuel volume to "before pod" levels.  The stock ducting also provides a smooth air flow in the carb throat.  Pods introduce turbulence that fouls smooth air flow.  When that turbulence reaches into the carb throat and covers the fuel jet exits, the jet fuel flow becomes unpredictable, leading to throttle positions that are leaner or richer than a throttle position slightly offset.

And what should this equate to with performance? Sluggishness at higher rpms? Hesitation? due to insufficient fuel/O2?

Without rejetting, you can expect lean run conditions, higher combustion conditions, high oil temperatures and associated wear.  Possibly loss of power.
Jetting set too rich can foul spark plugs causing misfires, poor fuel economy,  and oil contamination from piston ring blowby.