Author Topic: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)  (Read 2000 times)

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Offline itzjoker

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What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« on: January 08, 2019, 10:07:36 am »
Found a local CB550, from the pictures it seems to be in good condition.  It is very clean. Owner told me it was running before it was stored. It's been stored only a couple years and he has not started it since storing. I was told it needs a tune up...carbs cleaned/rebuild, battery, gas tank cleaned, etc.

~24k miles on odometer

I have zero knowledge of motorcycles, but I am not afraid to do light work to get it 100%.

What else should I be cautious of when purchasing?

How much should I pay as well?

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« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 04:41:27 pm by itzjoker »

Offline sixthwisconsin

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2019, 10:25:18 am »
Post pictures if you have them.

1. Check that the motor is not stuck.
2. check the mileage.
3. take a flashlight and look at the inside of the tank.
4. make sure the original airbox is intact.
5. If original exhaust, check for holes around the collector.
6. look under the seat and under the left side cover at the condition of the wiring.  Check for hacking and splicing.

Offline jakec

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2019, 10:25:32 am »
Can't tell you how much to pay without photos. First things to check are the mileage on the odometer. Over 20k? Oof. If so ask (and check) to see if it's had a top end rebuild. You can tell if it has had a rebuild be cause the fins on the engine will be clean and the gasket will be clean. If the gasket looks gooey and the mileage is above 20k you're probably looking at a top end rebuild. Then you wana check under the seat and if possible, under the tank. Is the wiring intact and just a little dusty? Did the old battery explode and send battery acid everywhere? You also want to check the inside of the tank. You can remove the rust if there is any. But this is a good talking point for haggling. You also want to run your hands under the bottoms of all the mufflers and make sure there are not holes or cracks. There will be one small hole for water escape, that's ok.

You also want to kick it over, and pull the dip stick and smell for gas or water. The normal smell of dirty oil is so distinct, you'll be able to tell if there is another smell. All of these are good talking points to haggle the price. However if it's really only been a couple years, I doubt you need to worry about any of this.
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Offline itzjoker

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2019, 10:58:11 am »
Added pictures! Probably looking at least a carb rebuild
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 11:23:58 am by itzjoker »

Offline calj737

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2019, 11:03:47 am »
Repairing the wiring will be the biggest hurdle. The installation of the front fender resulted in the front wiring harness to be modified. The exhaust is not stock, the seat and rear grab rails too look non-stock. Otherwise, looks like a decent condition bike.

Perform the repairs listed in your first post, and grab a Service Manual and conduct the 3,000 mile service interval and you’ll be fine.
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Offline flybox1

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2019, 11:08:52 am »
Cheap smartphone borescopes are very handy for this sort of thing....especially to pull a plug or two and look into the cyls.
Center stand?  Put it up and see if it shifts thru the gears while you spin the rear.
Pull the oil dipstick and see if there is mayo (evidence of water) on the stick or in the oil.
Drop a carb bowl and see how bad the gunk is.
Check the fuse area for signs of heat/melting plastic.
Battery tray have any acid spill evidence?
Bring a known good battery and see what electrical you dont have.
-$100 for that seat.  Its nearing Bosozoku levels....
Both side covers and emblems intact?

got a title?

I bought my titled, non-running 74 550K for $400
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Offline sixthwisconsin

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2019, 11:09:40 am »
I think $1000 should buy it. It won’t be that hard to return to stock condition.

Offline Bankerdanny

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2019, 11:15:35 am »
Can't tell you how much to pay without photos. First things to check are the mileage on the odometer. Over 20k? Oof. If so ask (and check) to see if it's had a top end rebuild. You can tell if it has had a rebuild be cause the fins on the engine will be clean and the gasket will be clean. If the gasket looks gooey and the mileage is above 20k you're probably looking at a top end rebuild. Then you wana check under the seat and if possible, under the tank. Is the wiring intact and just a little dusty? Did the old battery explode and send battery acid everywhere? You also want to check the inside of the tank. You can remove the rust if there is any. But this is a good talking point for haggling. You also want to run your hands under the bottoms of all the mufflers and make sure there are not holes or cracks. There will be one small hole for water escape, that's ok.

You also want to kick it over, and pull the dip stick and smell for gas or water. The normal smell of dirty oil is so distinct, you'll be able to tell if there is another smell. All of these are good talking points to haggle the price. However if it's really only been a couple years, I doubt you need to worry about any of this.

The 550 is not a 750 F2/F3, there is no reason at all to be concerned about mileage over 20k.
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Current: '76 CB750F. Previous:  '75 CB550F, 2007 Yamaha Vino 125 Scooter, '75 Harley FXE Superglide, '77 GL1000, '77 CB550k, '68 Suzuki K10 80, '68 Yamaha YR2, '69 BMW R69S, '71 Honda SL175, '02 Royal Enfield Bullet 500, '89 Yamaha FJ1200

Offline Bankerdanny

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2019, 11:26:37 am »
Looks like original paint, non-original seat, aftermarket mufflers (or maybe full exhaust, but that kind of muffler is often fitted to the OEM head pipes with the old mufflers cut off).

Vetters are a mixed blessing. They are wonderful for long trips, but suck for around town riding in the summer and they require modifications to the wiring that are not always well done.

I agree with Sixthwisconsin about value. This is the off season for motorcycle buying in the Midwest, 550's don't have the value here that they do elsewhere in the US, and since you can't hear it run or ride it the risk is higher that there is more wrong than the seller is telling you. Also, parts to get back on the road add up quickly. You can easily spend several hundred dollars on tires, hoses, battery, tune up parts, etc. Don't be fooled by what looks like a cosmetically sound bike into thinking it will be cheap to make a rider (it might be, but you can't count on that). The running and rideable 550F I bought in 2014 still cost about $300 to get fully up to snuff.

That said, it appears to be well cared for and I personally would be perfectly happy to pay around $1k for it.
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Current: '76 CB750F. Previous:  '75 CB550F, 2007 Yamaha Vino 125 Scooter, '75 Harley FXE Superglide, '77 GL1000, '77 CB550k, '68 Suzuki K10 80, '68 Yamaha YR2, '69 BMW R69S, '71 Honda SL175, '02 Royal Enfield Bullet 500, '89 Yamaha FJ1200

Offline ekpent

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2019, 11:52:40 am »
  The 550 pictured looks like the kind of bike I like to buy if the price is right. Those outfitted like that with fairings,touring seats etc. are typically owned by older gents who have had them a very long time. It would be a very good candidate to bring back to mostly stock with the original paint being a major bonus.  Good luck in your pursuit and if the price is right and its advertised somewhere don't wait too long to make a decision.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 07:06:39 pm by ekpent »

Offline MauiK3

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2019, 02:24:19 pm »
You’ll need to check fork oil and seals, brake master and caliper (they could be sticky or frozen), wheel bearings, gauges may bounce around, tires will be too old and hard to be safe, a seat and exhaust (stock) will be pricey, don’t pay too much.
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Offline Don R

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2019, 03:03:32 pm »
 If it was a true "barn" bike check for mouse damage in the wiring, seat and mouse pee on the top sides of chrome. This appears to be a clean garage find. On a parked for decades bike I usually spend up to a thousand on tires, tubes, a full tune-up, carb cleaning, rubber parts, brake service, battery, fork seals and neck and wheel bearings. If it's been serviced regularly that's a big plus.
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Offline Stev-o

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2019, 03:06:57 pm »

It is very clean and stock 
What else should I be cautious of when purchasing?


First off, never believe the seller!   Did he say it was stock?  Obviously, it is not.

If the motor is not "stuck" and has a title, about a thousand bucks is a fair price.

Be prepared to sink up to another thousand into it getting it back to stock and roadworthy.
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Offline Bankerdanny

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2019, 04:22:26 pm »
Don't let Don and Stevo-o scare you off. You can definitely spend $1k, but you shouldn't have to.

My first 550, a '77 550K, was a low mile 2 owner survivor that had sat for over 20 years (with gas in the tank and carbs). I spent about $500 getting it into daily rider shape.

Based on the pictures figure a battery, tires/tubes/rim strips, fuel lines and carb gasket kits at a minimum. I would recommend new front brake hoses too as they aren't expensive. I ran inexpensive Shinko tires on both my 550's and was quite happy. All that will generally get you a good running and riding bike. Things like electronic ignitions, braided steel brake hose (which my 550F got buy my 750F did not), and drilled front disks are nice, but not necessary.

I should add, this assumes you do all your own work. If you involve a shop then the cost will rise quickly.
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Offline itzjoker

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2019, 04:38:47 pm »
I guess I assumed it was fairly ‘stock’ aesthetic wise, owner didn’t mention it was stock.

Updated with mileage: ~24k

« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 04:42:06 pm by itzjoker »

Offline sixthwisconsin

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2019, 06:14:53 pm »
I guess I assumed it was fairly ‘stock’ aesthetic wise, owner didn’t mention it was stock.

Updated with mileage: ~24k



Mileage doesn't scare me at all.
It is definitely not stock appearing with the addition of the front fairing and the King/Queen/sissy bar seat. (BTW, I think the seat is a really cool period piece!) These are not hard to reverse back to stock.

The question you have to ask yourself is: Do you want to immerse yourself in this SOHC culture and learn and build this bike yourself. Some want a quick fix and some want to stay for the long haul and learn. Old bikes need constant love compared to a modern ride. Some people want the nostalgia but not the work.

You decide.

To Bankerdanny's point, you can spend little to get the bike back to original spec and driving down the road. You can then go forward with upgrades that make it more reliable and better driving as funds and time dictate.

To give you some perspective, I don't mind laying out my last 1974 cb550 build.
I spent $2583 all in, and I mean every cent including original purchase price. I do admit I got it VERY cheap from a friend for $200 with no title.

Here is the list with a complete top end check & clean up.

carb rebuild kits
Gaskets, air filter, carb boots, etc from four into one
complete gasket set, rubber head pucks
pamco ignition / coils, wires & caps.
Parts Unlimited Chain and Sprocket Kit 17-37 530 chain 100L. Grips, crank case cover gasket.
choke butterfly screws
Tires
Brake caliper piston seal #45108-300-003. Parts n more
Replica Kawasaki - Complete Brake Master Cylinder - 14mm      4 into 1
carb spigot O rings #91302-001-020  -  30.8 mm
Stainless Steel Brake Line Kit - Clear - 35 Degree Caliper Mount - Honda CB360/450/500/550/750.   
Fork Seal - 91255-KBH-003
Saddlemen Saddle Skins Replacement Seat Cover with seat strap
fork tubes
paint
superbright LED  /  signal & brake lights
cognito moto  /  LED H4 headlight & housing
front disk drilling & pads
Delkevic exhaust
Regulator rectifier
Battery
Horn
Gauge bases
Tank rubber
Fuse holder & supplies
Vacuum line & fuel drain line
Starter cover
All balls steering bearings
Ikon shocks  76-4002
KBS Tank liner

So I have a $2600 bike in parts not including labor. Is it worth that on the open market? Maybe and I hope more but I am not betting on it. Watch Barrett Jackson and see what cars go for.

I'm not doing it for the money. Yes, some recognize the build quality will and pay more.

Before & afta:









Added the Ikon shocks and seat strap after these pictures. Also cut & buffed the tank and added a 4" decal rather than the 3" pictured.


« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 06:25:52 pm by sixthwisconsin »

Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2019, 06:41:22 pm »
I guess I assumed it was fairly ‘stock’ aesthetic wise, owner didn’t mention it was stock.

Updated with mileage: ~24k



Mileage doesn't scare me at all.
It is definitely not stock appearing with the addition of the front fairing and the King/Queen/sissy bar seat. (BTW, I think the seat is a really cool period piece!) These are not hard to reverse back to stock.

The question you have to ask yourself is: Do you want to immerse yourself in this SOHC culture and learn and build this bike yourself. Some want a quick fix and some want to stay for the long haul and learn. Old bikes need constant love compared to a modern ride. Some people want the nostalgia but not the work.

You decide.

To Bankerdanny's point, you can spend little to get the bike back to original spec and driving down the road. You can then go forward with upgrades that make it more reliable and better driving as funds and time dictate.

To give you some perspective, I don't mind laying out my last 1974 cb550 build.
I spent $2583 all in, and I mean every cent including original purchase price. I do admit I got it VERY cheap from a friend for $200 with no title.

Here is the list with a complete top end check & clean up.

carb rebuild kits
Gaskets, air filter, carb boots, etc from four into one
complete gasket set, rubber head pucks
pamco ignition / coils, wires & caps.
Parts Unlimited Chain and Sprocket Kit 17-37 530 chain 100L. Grips, crank case cover gasket.
choke butterfly screws
Tires
Brake caliper piston seal #45108-300-003. Parts n more
Replica Kawasaki - Complete Brake Master Cylinder - 14mm      4 into 1
carb spigot O rings #91302-001-020  -  30.8 mm
Stainless Steel Brake Line Kit - Clear - 35 Degree Caliper Mount - Honda CB360/450/500/550/750.   
Fork Seal - 91255-KBH-003
Saddlemen Saddle Skins Replacement Seat Cover with seat strap
fork tubes
paint
superbright LED  /  signal & brake lights
cognito moto  /  LED H4 headlight & housing
front disk drilling & pads
Delkevic exhaust
Regulator rectifier
Battery
Horn
Gauge bases
Tank rubber
Fuse holder & supplies
Vacuum line & fuel drain line
Starter cover
All balls steering bearings
Ikon shocks  76-4002
KBS Tank liner

So I have a $2600 bike in parts not including labor. Is it worth that on the open market? Maybe and I hope more but I am not betting on it. Watch Barrett Jackson and see what cars go for.

I'm not doing it for the money. Yes, some recognize the build quality will and pay more.

Before & afta:









Added the Ikon shocks and seat strap after these pictures. Also cut & buffed the tank and added a 4" decal rather than the 3" pictured.

Well Done, If not Perfect, It looks like you're riding it, even better.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 07:46:54 pm by Tracksnblades1 »
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Offline itzjoker

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2019, 07:34:51 pm »
We came to an agreement on price which is a tad higher than what you guys mentioned, but is fair to me if all that is needed to run is carb rebuild/tires/battery.

Now when I come to see it, the question is, how do I test if motor is not seized?

Should I bring a working battery and try to start it?
Bring a compression tester?

Offline ekpent

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2019, 07:39:18 pm »
 If the kickstart won't move it seized. If your not an experienced mechanic don't go pulling the plugs and trying to test the compression etc. unless the owner helps you out. The fairing and roll bar will make that more difficult. Sometimes you just have to roll the dice and hope you get lucky. I know Steve says all sellers lie but I can usually get a good feel for a bike from them and learning of the bikes history and why it was laid up and not ridden anymore and it overall condition That's why non-runners sell for less though.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 07:50:40 pm by ekpent »

Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2019, 07:51:15 pm »
If the kickstart won't move it seized. If your not an experienced mechanic don't go pulling the plugs and trying to test the compression etc. unless the owner helps you out.  Sometimes you just have to roll the dice and hope you get lucky. That's why non-runners sell for less.


+1

Expect the absolute worst, then surprises will only be pleasant. 😎
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Offline DaveBarbier

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What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2019, 02:30:10 am »
I agree that the mileage doesn’t necessarily mean issues or even a top end rebuild.

There WILL be more than what the PO says to do to get it good to go.

Another thing to check for or be mindful of: this is a 550 with the old style valve/cam cover. They are prone to wallowing out the rocker shafts bores which makes setting timing impossible and can lead to damage. The best fix for this is buying a used ‘77 or ‘78 cover off ebay which is a direct swap. You might want to pull the end caps off and look for wallowing out or thread an M6 screw into the shaft and check for lateral movement. There should be none. Something to think about but it looks like you already came to a price agreement.

What are your plans with the bike? Restore? Just get it looking nice and rideable? Worried about using aftermarket parts or looking to be all factory original in the end? Modifying it at all?

What kind of work can you do yourself?

Nice looking bike and by the looks of the motorcycle stand and the tools in the back it was owned by someone who cared. Hope it wasn’t over $1500. But if it was, for your first old bike who cares if you pay a bit more in the beginning.

Offline itzjoker

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2019, 06:00:27 am »
I was planning on a light cafe build, but I’m leaning towards just getting it close to stock. Owner purchased it with intentions of restoring but never got around to it and is selling the last of his bikes. He bought and restored CBs but is stopping so I was told.

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2019, 06:29:27 am »
It’s your bike, do what you want with it. Many hear will try and steer you away from any permanent modifications. If they want your bike to stay original, have them make an offer to buy it from you.

Offline Bankerdanny

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2019, 08:22:40 am »
I agree with Dave that it's your bike so you should build whatever you want. This bike looks like a good candidate for a 'light cafe' treatment, meaning (to me) low bars, maybe rearset pegs (which I recommend if you decide to go with clubman or clip-on bars), maybe cut fenders, smaller turn signals and tail light, better seat, decent 4-1 exhaust (don't listen to the siren song of pods, keep the OEM airbox setup).

If the paint is in good shape it's worth retaining (plus it's a great looking color), but if you are dead set on a different color, I would strongly recommend selling the tank and side covers as a set and buying a replacement tank that needs painting and brand new side covers.

But this is just my free opinion and only worth what I am charging. :)
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Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: What to look for when purchasing a "barn find"? (Midwest)
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2019, 10:05:10 am »
Agreed. I would avoid messing up anything like the tank or any bits that you’d be able to sell to fund any aftermarket parts. If you do, post up on the for sale section. Original parts in good shape are always wanted by someone here.