Author Topic: Hondabond 4  (Read 1198 times)

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Offline evinrude7

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Hondabond 4
« on: January 10, 2019, 06:11:13 pm »
Pulling the motor next week to replace pucks. Will Hondabond "4" be ok? What's recommended for the valve cover gasket? Oil it up amd install or Hondabond? Permatex? 

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Offline beemerbum

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2019, 08:27:44 pm »
I think Hondabond and similar substances are for surfaces that are joined without a gasket, such as the upper and lower halves of the motor. Where there is a gasket used, ie valve/cam cover nothing else is needed if the surfaces to be joined are in good shape.

Offline PeWe

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2019, 09:36:35 pm »
I use dry gasket under valve cover. Honda gasket worth the extra. Some after market has bad fitting around cam tunnel at front.
I have tried Hondabond under that gasket. It took hours to clean the surface when gasket broke at next intervention.

I have used Hondabond under the pucks. Last builds Permatex® Aviation Form-A-Gasket® No. 3. Also Hylomar blue. All worked under pucks.  I trust Permatex more on this.
Check so you do not take too much which might float out under cam towers when tightened and reach oil supply holes.

I plugged the thread holes for cam studs from the plug cavity side with JB Weld
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 11:56:45 am by PeWe »
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Offline flatlander

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2019, 02:00:12 am »
yes i'd also recommend using original honda gaskets, some aftermarket ones are too thin or have other issues that make them not fit as well.
if you use sealer behind the gasket or pucks, make sure it's only applied on the side that's away from the oil and completely behind the rubber, also not being squeezed out after being compressed. otherwise you risk it coming loose and then it can block oil lines. if you do it like that it does not really matter what brand you use, it will all do the job of beefing up the sealing.

Offline MRieck

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2019, 03:51:26 am »
I have had excellent results with the CycleX foam/steel core cam cover gaskets. They fit perfectly and the foam takes care of any surface irregularities. I am a big fan of OEM stuff but these steel gaskets really work well.
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Offline evinrude7

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2019, 07:08:51 am »
hondabond 4 says it's a semi drying sealer.  in hondaman's book he suggests a non-hardening sealer for the pucks.  looks like he's using permatex 2 in the photo.  the hylomar blue looks like good stuff for this. 

ordered the oem valve cover gasket and 4 o-rings.  i'll use nothing on those.  maybe a light coat of motor oil.  thanks for the replies. 
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Offline flybox1

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2019, 07:50:29 am »
I used permatex 2 without issue on my F3
Hylomar blue is another good choice.

Remember to subtract puck recess depth from puck thickness.
.15mm is the minimum here.
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Offline MauiK3

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2019, 08:53:38 am »
I use Hondabond to good results
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Offline evinrude7

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2019, 04:46:46 pm »
I used permatex 2 without issue on my F3
Hylomar blue is another good choice.

Remember to subtract puck recess depth from puck thickness.
.15mm is the minimum here.
How do you mean? In the amount of sealant?

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Offline low-side

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2019, 06:12:11 pm »
I've used the CycleX valve cover gasket too.  Not cheap, but well worth the money.  Fits perfectly and does not leak.

Offline MRieck

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2019, 06:32:26 pm »
I've used the CycleX valve cover gasket too.  Not cheap, but well worth the money.  Fits perfectly and does not leak.
Absolutely....people should get with some new technology. And....they are not that expensive IMO. Hondabond ( 3 Bond 1194 or 1184 most recently I think) is for sealing cases.
 I guess you could use that 60 year old Permatex non hardening...hint...it does harden or Indian Head shellac....just like in the 30's. ;D ;D
 Come to think about it.....JB Weld would not leak either!  ::) ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 06:35:45 pm by MRieck »
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Offline low-side

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2019, 03:31:31 am »
I stand corrected, it really isn't expensive at all; I thought I'd paid forty-something for it on my last build, not $24.95.  I think I used Permetex Anaerobic gasket maker on the case halves the last time I had them split.  I generally use the thinnest skin coat of ultra gray rtv on paper gaskets and the pucks. 

Offline PeWe

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2019, 07:18:19 am »
I used permatex 2 without issue on my F3
Hylomar blue is another good choice.

Remember to subtract puck recess depth from puck thickness.
.15mm is the minimum here.
How do you mean? In the amount of sealant?

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Too much sealant under the rubber pucks will be pressed out under the cam holders when they are tightened with risk reaching the oil supply holes. One under each cam holder. I have seen it on my bike at next lift of cam holders. No problem, only half way to the holes. Enough to make me alert to next time. You can try and see. Seal the rubber pucks, mount the cam holder and tighten them with 5 Nm or so. release them, lift them and check.

Make sure that the cam chain tunnel is covered with a clean cloth.Those small tubes (dowel pins) in the cam holders just wait to jump out and into that hole!

Be aware of the torque used for cam holders and cam. Honda recommend too much according to my experience getting thread problems. 10Nm (7.4 ft lbs) Ok if you have thread fix like helicoil or time-sert. Stock alu threads, I should use 8Nm (6 ft lbs) max. The small M5 5Nm (3.7 ft lbs).
I usually use 10Nm if the thread lenght is around 10mm but have reduced lately. Head cover will not leak with half, 5Nm. Just retighten it a few hours after when gasket is compressed.

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Offline ekpent

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2019, 07:26:55 am »
 Put thread lock on the two cam sprocket screws/bolts also  ;)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 07:59:50 am by ekpent »

Offline johans

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2019, 07:51:23 am »
+1 on Hylomar  ( sparingly )
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Offline evinrude7

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2019, 09:34:42 am »
thanks for the tips.  she's in the basement ready to pull the motor. 
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Offline evinrude7

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2019, 11:40:02 am »
Carbs, drive chain and exhaust off.  Time to drain the oil.

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Offline ekpent

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2019, 12:18:33 pm »
  In my shop I have a large old floor rug and a couple large sheets of cardboard under to bike to work on. Easier on the knees and catches the mess and falling parts. Carry on  :)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 12:22:21 pm by ekpent »

Offline evinrude7

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2019, 01:25:08 pm »
  In my shop I have a large old floor rug and a couple large sheets of cardboard under to bike to work on. Easier on the knees and catches the mess and falling parts. Carry on  :)
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Offline evinrude7

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2019, 03:04:33 pm »
Going to give the exhaust a little attention while it's off the bike. I've done a few patches w jb weld in the past and they seem to be holding up. A few more to do now that they're accessible.  As for the chrome clamps, mine are fairly rusted. They are soaking in kerosene. Once I clean them up is there anything I can do to minimize future rust besides high heat paint? Can't really keep them oiled as they get super hot.

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2019, 07:31:12 pm »
Pulling the motor next week to replace pucks. Will Hondabond "4" be ok? What's recommended for the valve cover gasket? Oil it up amd install or Hondabond? Permatex? 

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Use Permatex #2 non-hardening sealant on the pucks. Hondabond 4 on the gasket, on the cam cover side, will keep it clean afterward.

While you're in there: when the pucks are removed, retorque the little 6mm (10mm head) screws under the 2 outer and 2 inner pucks, and back off each head nut 1/4 turn and re-torque them each to 210 in-lbs. You might even find some loose ones!
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Offline evinrude7

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2019, 01:37:15 am »
Pulling the motor next week to replace pucks. Will Hondabond "4" be ok? What's recommended for the valve cover gasket? Oil it up amd install or Hondabond? Permatex? 

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Use Permatex #2 non-hardening sealant on the pucks. Hondabond 4 on the gasket, on the cam cover side, will keep it clean afterward.

While you're in there: when the pucks are removed, retorque the little 6mm (10mm head) screws under the 2 outer and 2 inner pucks, and back off each head nut 1/4 turn and re-torque them each to 210 in-lbs. You might even find some loose ones!
Thanks Mark.

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Offline Gamma

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2019, 02:03:01 am »

I used 3 bond 1194. Hopefully not too much (PeWe) 😄
Retiring this year, so I can put it all together
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 02:11:40 am by Gamma »

Offline evinrude7

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2019, 05:39:21 am »

I used 3 bond 1194. Hopefully not too much (PeWe) 😄
Retiring this year, so I can put it all together

hey gamma, that motor looks clean.  did you put any goop on the underside edges of the pucks?  or is that not smart?
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Offline Gamma

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Re: Hondabond 4
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2019, 06:08:15 am »

I honestly can’t remember but here is a photo, probably taken just before the pr3vious one.  If I did it would have been a very thin layer.  The head is clean because MRieck did the head work👍😁.  I just painted the external surfaces and bolted it all together.  As I said previously, the engine is not yet in the frame.  All the parts of the project are in Spain where I will retire soon to build it.

 

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