Author Topic: Countershaft clips and washers  (Read 383 times)

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Offline The Gurg

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Countershaft clips and washers
« on: January 11, 2019, 12:34:57 pm »
1975 Honda CB750-K5 33k miles

Hey wanting to make sure I get the clips and washers on the countershaft were oriented right. It’s only spins at thousands of RPMs so I figure doesn’t need to be perfect... Noticing there is a bubble and flat side to washers and clips. Assuming bubble side points to the end of the shaft that is closest. I get some orientation clues from wears lines.

I took a ton of pictures but am repeatedly having some part orientation questions. Any good resources, or do I just use common sense? Using mark Paris’s book, the factory manual, the Honda chopper engine diagrams, and the Peter Anderson YouTube videos.

Offline flybox1

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Re: Countershaft clips and washers
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2019, 01:45:37 pm »
for the clips....rounded edge toward the shaft-end/thrust washer

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Offline scottly

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Offline The Gurg

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Re: Countershaft clips and washers
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2019, 11:09:13 am »

So I think what FlyBox1 told me is the exact opposite of what I should do. I don’t know if he misspoke, didn’t understand, or perhaps I’m wrong. Posting to double check. The flat edge needs to face toward the thrust washer. To brake against the force of the moving gear. See the short YouTube video which explains the correct orientation of a chamfered circlip.

Offline The Gurg

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Re: Countershaft clips and washers
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2019, 11:11:21 am »
Transmission diagram for reference.

Offline The Gurg

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Re: Countershaft clips and washers
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2019, 12:21:40 pm »
Finished putting the countershaft together and starting on the main shaft and the first thing I see is a Honda installed circlip that oriented the opposite way that I expect. The video (and I talked to a mechanic at Cycle X) both seemed to say that the flat edge faces away from the gear force of the gear that moves or slides. And so the chamfered edge faces toward the gear sliding toward it.

Can someone help clarify? Seems like Honda just put the flat side against the washer regardless of gear force.

See photo of Honda installed circlip untouched since 1974. Chamfered side facing the camera.

Offline bryanj

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Re: Countershaft clips and washers
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2019, 12:53:32 pm »
If it was vital Honda would have said so inthe workshop manual
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Countershaft clips and washers
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2019, 05:59:24 pm »
In general: orient the rounded side of the clip/shim/spacer toward the component that will spin on its surface.
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Offline The Gurg

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Re: Countershaft clips and washers
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2019, 08:42:31 pm »
HondaMan, trying to digest/unpack your comment. Sounds like your saying the circlips chamfered edge faces the thrust washer.

So in the diagram, what I have labeled in red:
A. Chamfered edge is on the left
B. Chamfered edge is on the right
C. Chamfered edge is on the left
D. Chamfered edge is on the right
E. Chamfered edge is on the left

That seems to goes against what the linked video says at the 30 second mark, but is more congruent with what I’m seeing Honda did in my engine.

Offline The Gurg

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Re: Countershaft clips and washers
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2019, 12:57:16 pm »
Just checking back, seeing if anyone has any further insight. Did I interpret Hondaman’s comment correctly; is Hondaman saying to face the chamfered edge of the circlip toward the thrust washer?

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Countershaft clips and washers
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2019, 06:00:07 pm »
It hasn't been unknown to see the circlips assembled backward: Gammaflat's 750K5 slipped a gear over this issue because the flat side of the circlip was up against the (adjacent) spinning thrust washer, and it eventually unseated the clip. Then, whenever he was in 2nd gear and leaned the bike over, it would make a loud clunking noise.

So, look thru your setup, and discover if the part(s) resting against the clip are rotating against it (or the thrust washer that is next to it). If so, the rounded side of the clip (or washer) goes against the part that is moving. If the adjacent part is cogged to the shaft and not turning, it is not necessary for the rounded side to be up against it: then it's a tossup. Both situations exist in this tranny, too!
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Offline scottly

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Re: Countershaft clips and washers
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2019, 07:46:36 pm »
The rounded side of the clip should be against the non-sliding gears. When it happened to me, a gear that wasn't supposed to move on the shaft did, and engaged with the dogs of the gear that was supposed to slide, when the trans was in neutral.
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Offline scottly

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Re: Countershaft clips and washers
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2019, 07:52:35 pm »
If it was vital Honda would have said so inthe workshop manual
It's in the common service manual. Check reply #3 on the thread I linked earlier. ;)
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Offline The Gurg

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Re: Countershaft clips and washers
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2019, 08:54:26 pm »
All the explanations I’m seeing say to point the chamfered edge to the gear thrust.

I think maybe my issue is I’m misunderstanding which gear is “thrusting”. I was thinking the forks move the gear over, and that gear being moved over “thrusts”. But I’m guessing that’s not the case. The thrust is the other gear, the one without a shiftfork collar, the one that’s stationary. Wonder why that is the gear that “thrusts”.

Offline The Gurg

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Re: Countershaft clips and washers
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2019, 09:02:28 pm »
Finally, got it. I appreciate you guys straightening me out. Especially FlyBox1, who I questioned, but was right all along! Means a lot to have the help to put this thing together right.

 

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