Author Topic: CB550 high rpm power loss  (Read 4304 times)

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Offline sixthwisconsin

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Re: CB550 high rpm power loss
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2019, 07:33:33 PM »
If you want to run the velocity stacks, pull the MAC restrictions completely, run the open pipe, and tune to that. That at least gets you in the ballpark.

If you do this , you are STARTING OVER AGAIN!

I have to say, I am cringing with your choice of velocity stacks for the street. ( Im sure you have figured this out already! )  Maybe choose K&N pods? These are at least proven performance and you will be protecting the motor.

If you want to run the bike for street use, cool riding for the summer, put filters on those carbs and tune to that.

Offline Wyatt565

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Re: CB550 high rpm power loss
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2019, 11:20:54 AM »
Sixthwisconsin, I would love to run more filtration but the issues I’m running into are that the stock airbox won’t fit with the under seat tray and it’s ugly, I had pods on but I couldn’t even get the bike to idle properly with them let alone ride and after months of messing with it I tried the velocity stacks and it seemed idle halfway decent without choke and I could ride it. So I really don’t want to take a step back here.

Now I’m terms of the exhaust, and not that I’m super well versed with engine breathability but isn’t a little back pressure necessary for the engine to run decently?
I can take the baffle out and see what it does before doing the plug chop but ultimately I think I’m close to having this bike dialed in and I would rather not start over, especially with some summer riding around the corner 😎

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: CB550 high rpm power loss
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2019, 09:28:43 PM »
Unless it a 2 stroke oil burner, your engine doesn't need back pressure.

What it needs is to have the exit gas pulsing at the right frequency to not bog it down at a selected rpm.  That is a matter of length and collector sizes.

I should really ad the exhaust calculator link to my sig 😪

Offline TwoTired

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Re: CB550 high rpm power loss
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2019, 12:23:41 AM »
I notice your bike isn't stock.
Question:  How do you know your tach is reporting the correct RPM?   Ever check it?
FYI: You will never get a redline indication if using a 750 tach on a 550.  I know this from experience. ::)

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Wyatt565

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Re: CB550 high rpm power loss
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2019, 07:49:49 AM »
Maybe I’ll rip that baffler out and tune to that. I plan I’m running it with fiberglass exhaust tape so perhaps I should put that on too before tuning? In terms of the tach I bought one that uses the same ratio as the stock 550 tach so it should be good, I’m not sure how to check to make sure though...

Thanks

Offline sixthwisconsin

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Re: CB550 high rpm power loss
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2019, 08:33:27 AM »
I had pods on but I couldn’t even get the bike to idle properly with them let alone ride and after months of messing with it I tried the velocity stacks and it seemed idle halfway decent without choke and I could ride it. So I really don’t want to take a step back here.

Were your air screws at 1/2 turn for this? If so, could explain your lack of idle.

Offline Wyatt565

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Re: CB550 high rpm power loss
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2019, 08:59:10 AM »
I tried different idle screw adjustments for this and couldn’t get it, I still have them, I can try throwing them in again and start over, I really do want the filtration but I also want to be able to tune the bike by riding it and with the pods I wasn’t able to.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: CB550 high rpm power loss
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2019, 11:56:41 AM »
In terms of the tach I bought one that uses the same ratio as the stock 550 tach so it should be good, I’m not sure how to check to make sure though...

Thanks


...and what ratio was that?

You check it with a calibrated tach.  Or a frequency counter and some math.

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: CB550 high rpm power loss
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2019, 12:14:47 PM »
Bombermann650, the wall in this instance is an odd engine sound and I can’t get my Toms or speed up any higher.

Chances are thats the sound of overfueling. 

Does it gets better as ya close the throttle?

Probably need more air in that mix.

A turbo charger would happily oblige 😈

Offline sixthwisconsin

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Re: CB550 high rpm power loss
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2019, 06:57:17 PM »
Wyatt,
Take the air screws to stock 1.5 turns out.
No matter what, you want to start with stock settings & jets with whatever intake & exhaust you want to run. THEN you can tune to that. I like to tune from the bottom to the top of the RPM range. With your stock jets & settings and WHAT EVER intake & exhaust, what does the bike do? Then work on plug chops or riding to tune. Nothing wrong with butt dyno.

Offline Wyatt565

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Re: CB550 high rpm power loss
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2019, 08:20:48 PM »
Twotired, the ratio was 7:1 if I remember correctly, I did research on what the stock tach was before ordering it, I can do a test however to make sure.

Bombermann, it could be overfueling, it does get better as you close throttle., I know I keep flip flopping on how I’m going about this but I think sixthwisconsin is correct.

Sixthwisconsin, I think I’m going to torture myself into trying to tune to pods yet again, I have scoured this site to find some pods to order As well as what other users have ran for jets and needle clip to make it work. As of right now my plan is to wrap up the exhaust, keep the partially cut baffle in and put the pods on. Then I’ll drop back down to 115 main jets as that’s what I had when I bought the bike. I’ll take the air screw out to 1.5 like you said and start the daunting task of retuning this bike.

Thanks Guys for all the advice and info, as well as patience as I constantly change my mind 🙄

Offline sixthwisconsin

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Re: CB550 high rpm power loss
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2019, 08:41:26 PM »
Wyatt,
That is a great plan! Take it slow, Idle, mid range, then WOT.

Don't forget, Tourture is part of owning an SOHC Honda!!

Offline Wyatt565

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Re: CB550 high rpm power loss
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2019, 10:30:01 AM »
Alright guys, status report:
I’ve got the new pod filters I ordered on the bike. From what I read, you should have the needle clip all the way down as a baseline to work from. This may be disagreeable to some but I thought it might get me close and it did. I’m pretty much back to where I was with the velocity stacks. Now I can get up to about 6000 rpm before it peters out. My next step is going to be checking accuracy of the tach, which I’ll have to do some research off of what Twotired said. Then checking cam and engine timing before messing with carbs again.

Air screws are about 1/2 out, I started at 1.5 but that’s where it sounded best after adjustment.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: CB550 high rpm power loss
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2019, 12:09:23 PM »
If I recall correctly (1975), 6-7000 was all my 750 tach would read tops, on my 74 CB550.  I don't know what stopped it from revving;  Valve float or point bounce.  But it saved itself from blowing up, as I left the throttle wide open with no load on it, frustrated I couldn't get to red line...  The wrecked bike had the original dials smashed.  Bone yard sold me 750 replacements.

I didn't know at the time that the 750 tach ratio was different than the 550 tach ratio.

With a 550 tach installed, it easily made it to red line.  Dooh!

I still want to see your spark plug deposits with a plug chop done when the engine tops out.  If too lean, there will be lack of deposits,  If too rich, the tip insulators will be coated with carbon.   The plug tips are your window to combustion conditions inside the motor.


You don't adjust the airscrews for best idle.  (I've tried that.) That will just make the power response off idle under load dismal, as you don't have accelerator pumps on the carbs.  The idle has to be a bit overrich for when the slides are lifted and there is and inrush of air and simultaneous drop in carb throat vacuum (which is what is drawing fuel though the fuel jets), the carbs go over lean, no power.

When I adjusted the air screws for best throttle response under load, low and behold, the air screws were right at factory setting.  Of course, my bike had stock induction and exhaust on it.  So, smack your forehead, what do you know, factory setting worked best.

I once had a 75 CB550 with a Mac 4 to 1 and Foam pods on it.  A wanna be cafe racer, where I methodically reversed most of the mods that made the bike painful to ride on the street.  With 022a carbs set up in stock configuration, it ran well and fast at all throttle positions.  FYI 
Yes, I checked all the carb internals and measured to be sure they weren't altered away from what their markings reflected.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Wyatt565

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Re: CB550 high rpm power loss
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2019, 06:48:36 PM »
Twotired, so far I think I’ll check timing and then do the plug chop to find out what’s going on if timing is set correctly. I can set air screw back to stock and see what it does under load. But right now it can rev up to redline not under load but under load it only goes to 6k

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: CB550 high rpm power loss
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2019, 01:20:38 PM »
so your flat spot is moving up in the rev range every time you lean the mix more?

Offline Wyatt565

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Re: CB550 high rpm power loss
« Reply #41 on: March 27, 2019, 06:16:58 PM »
Bombermann650, sorry for the late response but it would appear so. However I adjusted timing yesterday and test rode today and here are my findings.

Upon checking timing 1/4 timing was on point, at fully advanced mark with the spring compressed the light cake on as well as when the engine rotated to the F mark. Cylinders 2/3 was a different story. When I set it originally I set to the F mark without taking into account the fully advanced mark. Upon checking this I found that at F the test light came on, but when on the fully advanced mark and the spring compressed it did not. So this time I set 2/3 to light up with that. This made it so when turning the engine clockwise the light wouldn’t come on until you just passed the F mark.

Now In terms of the test ride as I went through the gears I found that gears 1,2 and 3 hit a flat spot around 6k rpm but with a little more gas it kept going and accelerated to 9-10k rpm. Gear 4 hit a wall at 6500 rpm and gear 5 hit a wall at 6k rpm.

Tachometer was tested to be accurate. What do you guys think? I still plan I’m doing the plug chop the next day my plans free up to see what that wall/ flat spot shows in the rpm range.

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: CB550 high rpm power loss
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2019, 09:40:59 PM »
There's a chance your valve timing/clearance is wrong.  If you were goofing up the tdc marks like the ignition marks.

The advancer isn't supposed to go.balls out until 2500rpm-ish

Chances are you're still rich, if working the throttle got ya through the trouble spot.  Its starting to remind me of the 750/3's tuning issues.