Author Topic: Venting tappet covers?  (Read 4405 times)

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Offline Korven

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Venting tappet covers?
« on: February 18, 2019, 09:07:54 AM »
Anyone seen these tappet covers listed below. Do they provide any extra venting or are they just for bling (don't see how hoses everywhere is bling though) haven't seen them onto any bike so far. Cmsnl has them listed

Offline slikwilli420

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2019, 09:54:39 AM »
For what bike? I dont see any advantage on our fours since at least the 750 has a vent at the cam cover which is more than sufficient. On the other hand, you could pump oil into those to keep the valves in oil, but likely no necessary. Voxonda set his endurance bike up with small jets to put oil on the rocker shafts/cam lobes via a set of lines coming from an oil galley.
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Offline MRieck

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2019, 10:27:01 AM »
I saw those on the CMSNL site....Better than the homemade pieces I've seen.
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Offline Cb750 Racer

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2019, 10:27:15 AM »
I'm interested in a few. Anyone have a link?
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2019, 01:44:50 PM »
Always parts to order! ;)  I have just ordered an oil pressure gauge kit for my k2.
The breather cap look really good!
https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb750k5-four-1975-usa_model483/cap-tappet-breather-non_12361rrp020/#.XGsmwOj0nIU
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CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline bwaller

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2019, 02:59:05 PM »
Make sure you don't vent them in front of the rear tire.  ;)

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2019, 03:24:27 PM »
But why?
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline scottly

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2019, 05:21:42 PM »
Oil will be flung up off the tops of the valves, directly up into the vent holes. Unless there is some sort of air/oil separator, or a decent amount of vertical tubing, oil will make it's way out of the ends of the vent tubes. If you have so much pressure in the engine that extra venting is required, it's likely due to poor ring sealing.
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Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2019, 05:24:16 PM »
that is what I meant...seems the worst possible location for a vent/s
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Offline scottly

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2019, 05:52:29 PM »
 ;D
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Offline 754

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2019, 11:01:55 PM »
that is what I meant...seems the worst possible location for a vent/s
It would be great if your oil jet is plugged up, giver a shot of oil every few minutes..
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Offline Korven

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2019, 04:04:56 AM »
Wouldn't there be a risk to fill the pockets where the rocker arms are fully up with oil? Don't know how they splash the oil around, but might give some movement resistance? There is a small gap between the cover and where the cam lies.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 04:06:38 AM by Korven »

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2019, 04:35:37 AM »
i've seen those on twin cyl (CB350) and single cyl racers which tend more to build up pressure downstairs. in my supermono I had to vent from a similar location because the original breather at crankcase level was collecting too much oil mist. At least in my case, the valve tops didnt fling any oil, actually the tappet cover vent collected much less oil than the original down low location.
As someone else said here, not really necessary on a four, unless you have ring sealing issues. all my four cyl racers do just fine with the stock breather location.

Offline flatlander

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2019, 05:06:06 AM »
says in the description under pewe's link:
High qualityTappet Cap with breather. Excellent for high performance Cub engines, especially when used hard.

cub engine is a small single cyl - totally different from our fours. no idea why CMSNL lists them for the 750. i guess you could technically fit them but what's the point?

Offline MRieck

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2019, 06:01:12 AM »
 I think they would help venting a 750 when you start increasing the bore 10 or 11mm and stroke by 5mm.
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Offline gschuld

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2019, 06:41:48 AM »
I think they would help venting a 750 when you start increasing the bore 10 or 11mm and stroke by 5mm.

Might still need a bit of a baffle of some sort to discourage splash oil from getting sucked out I’d think.  Wouldn’t an increased volume vacuum port at the factory location be a better option considering it has the baffle thing covered by design already?

George

Offline 754

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2019, 06:59:47 AM »
 The tapped cover fits about 250 applications  some not valvecovers
And many many models.
 I suspected it may be often used on the laydown singles  i think I saw them there before.
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Offline flatlander

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2019, 07:46:24 AM »
exactly. laydown single -  that's the cub engine they refer to in the description.

Offline strynboen

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2019, 07:19:26 AM »
think it are a return for a oilcooler..some 1 cyll engines take oil aut from the side of the head..lead it throughg a cooler and return it in the adjusting cap
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2019, 09:07:35 AM »
I think they would help venting a 750 when you start increasing the bore 10 or 11mm and stroke by 5mm.
We discussed extra venting in a thread when my engine had some case pressure weeping oil around oil filter cover. 71.25mm pistons pump more air ;)
I should have done it earlier with my 836 if I knew.
It was enough to add the vent thru the clutch cover as you have Mike.
 I think Sam Green mentioned extra top vent thru the tappet covers, IN 2&3.
This solution is really nice then .
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
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Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Don R

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2019, 04:53:01 PM »
 I have a rocker cover with an extra vent and barbed fitting in it. I don't remember finding a big engine under it though.
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Offline scottly

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2019, 05:46:07 PM »
IIRC, the vent nipple on the cam cover is not an open tube on the inside end, it's closed on the end with a rather small opening on the bottom. This small opening may be enough to relieve the blow-by for smaller bores, but 5% leakage from 61mm bores would be much less volume than 5% leakage from 71mm bores??
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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2019, 05:24:29 PM »
What Mike said......
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2019, 05:28:24 AM »
I think they would help venting a 750 when you start increasing the bore 10 or 11mm and stroke by 5mm.
We discussed extra venting in a thread when my engine had some case pressure weeping oil around oil filter cover. 71.25mm pistons pump more air ;)
I should have done it earlier with my 836 if I knew.
It was enough to add the vent thru the clutch cover as you have Mike.
 I think Sam Green mentioned extra top vent thru the tappet covers, IN 2&3.
This solution is really nice then .

To be honest PeWe, I don't think the extra breathers are necessary and the top breather from the cam box is quite adequate.
I remember the original thread well and fitted the extra breathers on numbers 2 and 3 tappet covers of my Auto in the States just to be safe.
In the UK, if you are racing a bike, all breathers must terminate into a catch can and the same was done on my Auto in the States.
When I got involved with the CB750 in the first place, the 836 that I built in the UK had a catch can from just the top breather and the residue in it was monitored after every event. The same was done with the 836 in the USA and even when it was taken out to 915, results were just the same.
When we talk about the pumping action of the pistons creating pressure, is this really true.
When two pistons go down, they create pressure below them (positive pressure) but at the same time, the other two pistons are going up cancelling this out (negative pressure).
Excessive pressure in a motor can only be down to 2 things if it is set up correctly. The first is bore wear and the second is the extra heat generated by the bigger motor and I think like Mike said, this is only in really big motors.

Sam. ;)
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2019, 09:25:18 AM »
Extra vent thru clutch cover did it as others told me. Pity I was not aware of this in the 80's when abusing the streets and my bike with 836
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,172703.msg2010515.html#msg2010515
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline PeWe

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2019, 07:43:07 AM »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline slikwilli420

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2019, 09:14:55 AM »
Valve for valve cover breather. How will that help?
http://www.yamiya750.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=246_21_249_49&products_id=3974


Looks like a pcv valve. Can be had for a few dollars at an auto parts store.
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

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Offline Cb750 Racer

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2019, 05:25:20 PM »
Valve for valve cover breather. How will that help?
http://www.yamiya750.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=246_21_249_49&products_id=3974
I think the worry with these venting covers is oil flinging off the valve/retainer and not falling back down as it would with the stock caps. This problem is really dependant on which caps you switch and the way the hose is routed off the vented caps. A valve right above the vent would definitely help. But then again when the pressures high enough to open the valve oil will be flinging out regardless. Not really sure where to stand on that debate but I think a fine screen above the vented ca would be the best solution IMO.
Turbo Billet Block cb750
1975 Honda CB400f
1972 Suzuki GT750J
1984 Kawasaki GPZ900 Mr.Turbo Top Gun build
2002 Suzuki Bandit 1200 Turbo
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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2019, 07:55:05 AM »
Yes, clutch cover works well.
BentON Racing Website
OEM Parts | Service | Custom Builds
BentON Racing Facebook
Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2019, 10:14:49 AM »
Yes, clutch cover works well.
I have had years of small oil weep between cases at front due to no knowledge of this simple modification.
Plus more recent problems when testing additional vent via the rear hose to oil tank and even more with an earlier oil tank.... most oil just disappeared, rear end rust protected ;D

That little vent thru clutch cover fixed it alone, even with 71.25mm pistons. 836 on a street bike need this vent too, at least mine. Business for shops selling covers with welded hose connection.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline scottly

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2019, 06:30:58 PM »

That little vent thru clutch cover fixed it alone, even with 71.25mm pistons. 836 on a street bike need this vent too, at least mine.
I have found no need for additional venting on my 836 with a K1 oil tank, with properly routed hoses?
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Venting tappet covers?
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2019, 02:56:06 AM »
My 836 got minor oil weeps around cases during holidays thru Germany, Austria and finally Italy. Another year via Germany, France to Spain. All day long on highway in speeds around 100mph or more helped oil to creap out.
Even shorter trips but still higher rpms most of the time ended up in dirty cases. I blamed the Hylomar blue sealer back then and years after.

It became more visual and quicker when bike got billet block with 1005cc 2017. Inspired riding often passing 8000 rpm showed weeps after around 50-100km.
This is completely fixed with the clutch vent and stock K6 oil tank without extra plumbing ;)
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967