Author Topic: Why are these connectors so unreliable?  (Read 4012 times)

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Offline Deltarider

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Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« on: March 07, 2019, 03:20:16 AM »
You will often find them on products of Taiwanese origin and in my experience they give problems. Is there a name for this type connector and why are they so unreliable, showing intermittent continuity? Is it they oxidise more or...? What is best to clean them (alcohol? a brass brush?) and how can I restore a good contact?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 10:04:48 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline BRG-BIRD

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2019, 05:02:53 AM »
It’s questions like these that kept me out of the really good schools.

Seriously though I have never heard of or seen those before. Have you tried Deoxit to clean the connectors?
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Offline robvangulik

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2019, 06:32:25 AM »
Unfamiliar to me too, where did it come from? And if you know that, simply never go there anymore ;D

Offline rotortiller

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2019, 06:35:05 AM »
Molex? They usually work fine unless used for the wrong application.

https://leeselectronic.com/en/product/41401.html
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 06:52:04 AM by rotortiller »

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2019, 08:30:01 AM »
They're hopeless. I have a batterycharger that in itself is perfect. Unfortunately it has these connectors. One moment it is charging OK, touch the wire and there's a good chance continuity is gone. Touch it again and it's back. I tried opening the male pins a bit further with a pin, but the result is temporary at best. What I would like to know: is it a bad contact or is it oxydation? Another possibility is that the white plastic fits so snug that the pins can still be in poor contact. Another example: I was given a CO-tester. The frustrated PO never had it working right. I opened it up to see if the potmeters for calibration were shot. Turns out it's the bloody connectors again that are responsible for intermittent continuity. It drives you crazy. I thought the cigarlighter connectors were bad, but these are far worse. To be avoided.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 08:34:16 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2019, 09:16:32 AM »
Delta, I have a battery charger with the same connectors,  and the exact same problem.
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Offline rotortiller

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2019, 10:10:36 AM »
Those computers you guys are tapping on likely have something very similar inside LOL.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 08:11:15 AM by rotortiller »

Offline PeWe

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2019, 10:48:55 AM »
You and your bike is worth a better charger.
I have CTEK MXS 5.0. For car batteries (max 5A, Motorcycle  battery mode(max 0.8A)
Price here around $100US. https://www.ctek.com/products/vehicle/mxs-5-0
It has clamps for battery and another connector harness for permanent connection to battery, EYELET M6 to plug into.
The harness long enough so connector to sit under air filter on the bike. I have extra set mounted on both my bikes and my car. Just connect when needed no clamps that must have seat/hood open, risk they will jump off.
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Offline Gordon

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2019, 10:50:52 AM »
Those computers you guys are tapping on likely have something very similar inside LOL.

I was just thinking that the only two places I've seen those kind of connectors are for power supply to computer components and on the batteries of my old Tamiya RC cars that have been beat to Hell.  I've never had a problem with them in either application, so it's probably just one #$%*ty connector and not necessarily a bad design. 

Offline Erny

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2019, 10:53:32 AM »
I have the same (bad experience) with these connectors (Optimate charger).
I have feeling that there are more producers of them (China, where else...) and looks to me that not all pins are not made in proper tolerances. Male too small or female too big.
Additionaly, question is current load they are desinged for. Maybe they are overloaded?
For the cleaning, I would use some high quality contact cleaner, clean them with cotton sticks or try brass. But as I know them metal is very thin.

I think the only permanent fix is replacement by another type of connectors
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Offline rotortiller

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2019, 11:40:36 AM »
A common problem for some  :)

Quote
Male too small or female too big.

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2019, 11:46:37 AM »
The charger is not a major problem for me because I rarely use it.  Batteries are just fine because I ride my bikes.

Really don't care what those connectors are called, but they do suck.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 11:49:25 AM by seanbarney41 »
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2019, 11:59:16 AM »
Those are not Molex brand connectors.
I agree.

The metal alloy used appears to have work hardened and become brittle.  I don't see any evidence of melting.  Repeated cycles of mating has done the pins in.  Pieces are broken off and it's made them too short for reliable connection.   I've seen this before.  If the dies making the pins aren't properly formed or too aggressive in the forming process, metal fatigue results.  One must chose the proper alloy base metal so the forming tool won't make it too brittle.  A good designer accounts for the embrittlement during the forming process and makes it work to advantage.  Starting with a too soft material that work hardens to proper function in the finished assembly.

My guess is that the component was used based on purchase price rather than to a quality spec with a mating cycle requirement.

All connectors have this spec stated or not.  I've seen specs as low as 5 mating cycles before contact degradation.  Mil spec components can have thousands of mating cycles.   But, such parts usually cost more.

When your purchase decision is based solely on lowest cost (cheap), you can usually expect to have a cheap product.

Of course, an engineer can track down the source to validate connector durability.  But, for a one-off repair,  Note the power handling requirements.  It "looks" like a molex connector pair would serve well for this application.  But Hobby shops that sell electric components for RC car or airplane, make some pretty stout connectors,  EC-3 or EC-5s.  Even Deans connectors would last for years.  Just make sure the male pins are dead when disconnected.  I have Tamiya cars and trucks that have connectors for battery connection that take a prolonged number of mating cycles without degradation.  Only an ESC short seems to take them out (in a rather spectacular way)!  Anyway, it was industry standard and are pretty readily available.  Almost certainly will give you the reliability you seek.

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Online jakec

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2019, 12:46:43 PM »
Those computers you guys are tapping on likely have something very similar inside LOL.

Similar!

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Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2019, 01:38:34 PM »
I have a 1 amp charger with those......they were so annoying I bought dual pin, rubberized connectors (trailer connectors?) from Canadian Tire, soldered and shrink wrapped them in. Probably worth more than the charger, but at least now I know it’s actually working when I connect it!

Offline Holubs

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2019, 02:18:26 PM »
We used those Molex 2 pin connectors when I worked at a previous company, typically for DC power. We did not use them for any application that required regular disengagement and engagement or where there was stress on the wires.

I would cut the wires close to the connectors and either solder the wires together with shrink wrap (if you don't plan to plug and unplug), or buy a matched pair of more robust connectors and crimp them on.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2019, 06:34:59 PM »
These 'Molex copies' are coming out of mainland China. Molex uses a spring-steel material in theirs, with high-conductive steel and no plating. The Chinese versions are tin and zinc: when current passes thru them they heat themselves up. When this happens, the outer (female) one gets larger than the inner one, and the circuit fails (it opens). Then it cools back down, usually arcs a bit, and the circuit works until the cycle repeats. After a while they arc themselves enough to quit altogether.

If you replace the contacts with good ones from Molex/Waldom the plugs usually work better.
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Offline Deltarider

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2019, 01:51:59 AM »
Excellent remarks from all of you. Thanks gentlemen! PEWE, the charger I have actually is a very good one. I've had it for some twenty years now and although it's one Amp only, I've recharged (and sometimes revived) countless batteries, including my 105Ah marine batteries (takes 3 days however ;D). Ever since I have this charger, I'm amazed how long batteries can live, if they're looked after a little bit. IMO it's not wise to leave batteries on a tender. Just recharge them before voltage drops under 12,4. CTEK was and is known good but nowadays tests have shown the difference with the ones supermarket LIDL occasionally offers for around € 15,- is very little. Products from China and Taiwan (sorry China) however often have inferior connectors and moreover their wires often lack suppleness which in turn can cause problens at the connectors. The problem with these Molex imitations occurs when you have several cycles of connecting and disconnecting. Having decided to abandon these connectors, now, as far as the CO-tester, I face a new challence. How does one fit a very thin wire to a much thicker one or should I just solder them together?
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Offline dave500

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2019, 02:03:43 AM »
they are #$%* full stop!they come with less contact tension full stop,the tension lessens quickly full stop,they are made from inferior thin #$%* full stop.

Offline PeWe

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2019, 03:39:45 AM »
Maybe CTEK harness can be used to your otherwise working charger.... Or find better connectors. I had thoughts about worse connectors on my CB750 K2 build that has a new aftermarket main harness.
The sockets feels very soft, I have to press them together with a plier after disconnecting and connect again, the connection feels not that reliable.
My K6 harness which is stock Honda has tougher sockets, not that soft.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2019, 05:36:52 AM »
Quote from: PeWe link=topic=176490.msg2052386#msg20i52386 date=1552045185
Maybe CTEK harness can be used to your otherwise working charger....
Actually the remedy for the charger is very simple: crimping some regular spade connectors, male and female, onto the wires will do. However I do not have a solution for the CO-tester yet as one pair of wires is very thin. As far as these poor 'Molex' imitations, I just wondered if I was the only one who has problems with them and what the nature of the poor connectivity is, mechanical or electrical. Now I know it's both. ;D
Quote
I had thoughts about worse connectors on my CB750 K2 build that has a new aftermarket main harness.
The sockets feels very soft, I have to press them together with a plier after disconnecting and connect again, the connection feels not that reliable.
My K6 harness which is stock Honda has tougher sockets, not that soft.
Thanks for bringing that up. So far I never had to disconnect one of the block connectors. But now that I have the tank removed, I'm curious to see what the connectors from main harness to the IGN key switch look like inside. I wouldn't be surprised to see at least some green and -behold!- I don't expect to see this kind of green:

BTW, these white blocks seem hardened and difficult to disconnect. What's the technique? Or are you supposed to use pliers anyway?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 07:13:18 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2019, 07:36:47 AM »
It looks like there are tensioning flares on the connector end that you need to pinch inwards while pulling the wire out of the connector.
The plastic on those look pretty cheap compared to Molex connectors. I had to do some reworking on some of the  connectors on an RC hovercraft I have been working on lately to get some of the battery connections to play nice with my remote. I would try to make sure to flux and tin the ends of your wires before you put better end connectors on.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2019, 09:49:25 AM »
Is there a question about how to remove the pins from molex style connectors?
Pin tools are essentially a thin metal sleeve that compresses the barbs on the pin that hold them in place during use.
Once the barbs are compressed, the pin slides out of the socket.  They are one way barbs, insertion is done without special tools.  Extraction needs a tool tailored for the pin and socket.  Pulling them out by force leads to pin damage, socket damage, or both.

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2019, 05:51:22 PM »
Essentially (speaking here as a lifelong Electronics Engineer/Designer/Programmer), the Molex connectors are an assembly device, and are intended for that purpose. They are intended for building a subassembly of some kind (like a circuit board, or maybe a chassis) at one location and another part of it at another, then they are plugged together in a 'final assembly' and the [completed] system tested. This also provides a semi-modular design for the vendor, in case some portion of it may need to be replaced occasionally (and rarely) at some point. They are not intended for regular (as in, frequent) connect-disconnect cycles, but are often used because they are the cheapest connectors available.

Many designers today don't seem to know this.... :(
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Why are these connectors so unreliable?
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2019, 11:41:03 AM »
Essentially (speaking here as a lifelong Electronics Engineer/Designer/Programmer), the Molex connectors are an assembly device, and are intended for that purpose. They are intended for building a subassembly of some kind (like a circuit board, or maybe a chassis) at one location and another part of it at another, then they are plugged together in a 'final assembly' and the [completed] system tested. This also provides a semi-modular design for the vendor, in case some portion of it may need to be replaced occasionally (and rarely) at some point. They are not intended for regular (as in, frequent) connect-disconnect cycles, but are often used because they are the cheapest connectors available.

Many designers today don't seem to know this.... :(

Molex, among other brands can offer connector pins made of different materials, plating, and plating thickness for repeated cycles and durability.  Of course, such pins cost more than cheapest available.   The engineer should pick the part for the application and use.  I think you are correct that the base materials offer a 5 mating cycle life.  But, you can get pins with far more mating cycle duration if you shop, specify and pay for better quality, even if it is within brand.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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