Topic: CB400F All Balls - Washers and Order?

[jakec]

Final setup was thick washer and seal at bottom, ground notches at spanner nut and seal at top.

I've read many threads here mostly about 550's and 750's. It seems that you should use a washer, then seal, on the bottom. And just the bearing on top, no washers or seals.

I have seen about 50/50 support for thin vs. thick washer for the bottom.

What should I use for the 400F?

I am planning to get a threaded rod to push the races into the steering stem.

[MoMo]

Measure the thickness of the old bearing and adjust new bearing and washers to same...Larry

[Don R]

 It's been a while but it seems like my 400 matched what my 750 wanted. Whatever that was.

[seanbarney41]

The kit comes with directions.  Use them.   A lot of the confusion stems from 750 and 550 guys trying to get the fork ears to work out right.  I don't believe the 400 has that problem.

[jakec]

I had read the instructions (basically what MoMo said). I just wanted to ask because I was reading multiple threads where people were debating thick vs. thin washer, with someone even saying it was preference. This is assuming all this debate was going on after they'd read the instructions.

It looks like thick washer it is, for the bottom.


This is thin washer:


The hardware store didn't have a correctly sized fender washer to allow me use a threaded rod to install the races so I bought a piece of 1-1/2" PVC pipe, which is a little too large. I'm going to cut slots into it to hopefully make it possible to jam it in.

[Trav-i]

The reason people were concerned with thickness with the bearings was the fitment of the stock headlight ears.  It seemed that if you went with the directions in the instructions, there was a big gap at the top and bottom of the headlight ears.  I think people were going with the thin spacer to help cut down on the ear gaps.

[jakec]

The thread I read was for 550's and the concern was about the clearance between the steering lock chuck (attached to steering head) and the lower triple. Thick washer gave more clearance.

[scottly]

I had read the instructions (basically what MoMo said). I just wanted to ask because I was reading multiple threads where people were debating thick vs. thin washer, with someone even saying it was preference. This is assuming all this debate was going on after they'd read the instructions.

It looks like thick washer it is, for the bottom.


This is thin washer:


The hardware store didn't have a correctly sized fender washer to allow me use a threaded rod to install the races so I bought a piece of 1-1/2" PVC pipe, which is a little too large. I'm going to cut slots into it to hopefully make it possible to jam it in.

That is not how you measure the bearing height; it is done with both races together. Read post #4 in this thread, where I posted the measurements:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,160077.0.html

[jakec]

Are you talking about the new bearing? I didn’t include the race because I thought it sat flush with the main part of the bearing.

Your right says 1/8” washer, this would be the thin one. Are you saying it’s the same for all bikes? You didn’t say which bike you were working on.

[Erny]

I had it same on my CB750 K7 and CB550 K1. (AllBalls kit)

Bottom - thin washer, seal and bearing - were exactly matching original setup (washer, seal and bearing with balls).

Top - in order to match headlight ears I could only fit top bearing w/o seal and w/washer. Additionally I had to grind top nut as described several times on the forum. (washer included in AllBalls kit shall fit into top nut, but doing so, top bearing assembly would be much higher than stock and will make big play for headlight ears. After grinding nut, nut sits directly onto top bearing. Make sure you grind it flat)

So CB750 K7 and CB550 K1 were exactly the same.

Unfortunalety, I forgot again to make photo of it...

[jakec]

Thanks, I don't know if that will apply to the 400F thought because it doesn't have ears. There is part #472. Still attaches to top and bottom, though. So it may apply.

[754]

I tel, people to notch the spacers,  then if they dont fit you can pry the bearing off with screwdrivers, to change the shim.

[jakec]

That's a good idea. like 4 notches in the spacer so you can come back if needed. Well it seems that the lower spacer dilemma has been sovled (thin one is correct) unless I get home and the race actually adds thickness to the bearing assy. But I'm pretty sure it does not.

[jakec]

Top race went in great. Bottom race started going at an angle. Do I keep banging or do I got to the hardware store and try to buy something I can tap it out with? I need something like a 1/4” metal rod about 9” long.

Well I guess hardware store closes at 7, not 8!

[scottly]

Yes, you need to use something for a punch to tap the side of the race that is too far in back out, until the race is straight. Do not try to straighten the race by banging on the side that's too far out.
BTW, it turns out the outer race is actually shorter than the topmost surface by about .025".

[754]

 2 notches will do ... then use 2 screwdrivers  to move bearing up if you want to remove or replace washers.

[scottly]

Additionally I had to grind top nut as described several times on the forum.

The nubs on the underside of the adjuster nut fit over the inner race, so no need to grind them off. Don't use the upper seal or washer; the main issue is a lack of thread engagement of the nut and the steering stem, when the total stack of spacers and bearing is too tall. Also, Honda used the same bearings for almost all street bikes.

[jakec]

I got the bottom race in fairly quickly and easily. I did freeze it for a while and I think that helped a lot.

I was hammering on the bottom bearing, I have about 1-2mm left to go and it’s very slow going. I thought I was being careful but I guess not. Apparently every time I hit my PVC pipe the hammer was bouncing (too quickly for me to see) and hitting the threads. Hoping I Fran find a machine shop that can repair these threads with a large enough dye.

[754]

 You can fix it, get a GOOD small 3 corner file or willow leaf cross  section file.
 Start cleaning the damaged part and checking with your threaded part.
 It might be easier if you make a v block for the vise or clamp a rod in the vise so you can turn the stem as you work.
You can use a brass or aluminum rod to drive race down  work your way around, small steps.
 It will tell you when it bottoms.

[jakec]

754, thanks, unfortunately as I was of course working my way around the bearing, there are 4-5 spots that look like this all round the thread. Which method do you think is better, file or dye? I assume dye will be more consistent

[rupaulpierce]

I'm gearing up to do this myself, thanks for blazing the trail.

[rupaulpierce]

Also you can fix it, but the lower triple clamp is much cheaper than the upper clamp. There are a ton on ebay, CB350F would work too.

[jakec]

Just reread this thread and I’m not sure why I said in an earlier post that the thing washer was correct. I did the thick washer. For anyone reading this in the future. I did a test fit and the lower triple’s steering restrictor lines up great with the thick washer installed.

Edit: I get it now, from the linked post where it says the difference is 1/8” inch. However I believe my photo is illustrating that the thick washer is correct.

As for the part, I actually have a spare in the parts lot I got. However this one is already painted and has the bearing installed! I will update you guys later in the week when I fix the threads, and I can fit the assembly together.

[754]

Die is hard to find

[jakec]

Threads have been repaired with a triangular file. Thanks 754.