Author Topic: CB400F All Balls - Washers and Order? (Read 6428 times)

jakec · « **Reply #25 on:** April 07, 2019, 06:48:36 PM »

Final clearance shown. About 3/4 turn on the spanner nut to finger tight.

Do I need the washer shown, if I’m not using the top seal? I assume it is only meant to distribute the spanner nut’s “teeth” across the flimsy seal.

scottly · « **Reply #26 on:** April 07, 2019, 08:10:24 PM »

Don't use the washer or the seal. The spanner nut should have 4-5 full turns minimum thread engagement.

jakec · « **Reply #27 on:** April 07, 2019, 08:22:34 PM »

I have closer to one full turn (but I did not go very tight, kept the movement feeling loose). You can see how much thread I had there. However, once assembled you can see marks from where the clamp was before. So it seems small washer would have been correct?

scottly · « **Reply #28 on:** April 07, 2019, 08:38:32 PM »

The location of the fork tubes in the lower triple has nothing to do with the steering stem or bearings???
It's much easier to adjust the stem bearings without the tubes mounted, as gravity is fighting you. There are at least 4 threads exposed on the stem in the one picture, so you should be able to get that many turns on the nut. Tighten the nut down as tightly as you can by hand, without the weight of the fork tubes or front wheel hanging from the lower triple.

jakec · « **Reply #29 on:** April 07, 2019, 08:44:01 PM »

I was thinking about it like this, the top clamp and the top of the forks are in the same spot relative to the frame, but the thicker washer is causing a bigger gap between the top and bottom clamps. So the line on the fork tube is the old resting position of the lower clamp and I believe we are seeing the difference.

I didn't put the forks on until after I had tightened everything down. I am pretty sure I only got about one turn out of the spanner nut though, even though there are 4 threads showing. There are those teeth on the bottom of the spanner nut, the height of maybe 1-1.5 threads. I will take off the top clamp and look again tomorrow.

Kelly E · « **Reply #30 on:** April 07, 2019, 08:57:04 PM »

Are you sure you got the top race fully seated? It didn't look all the way in this morning. With a brass drift you will feel and hear the sound change when it seats.

jakec · « **Reply #31 on:** April 07, 2019, 09:00:19 PM »

Kelly, I agree the top race seemed like it was poking out of the frame but it was definitely fully seated. I ran my fingers along the inside of the neck many times to confirm that it was seated because I was also confused why it stuck out so much.

Kelly E · « **Reply #32 on:** April 07, 2019, 09:06:24 PM »

I don't think the 400 I did had it sticking out like that but I am doing three bikes at once currently so I can't be sure. The only thing I am sure of is I am not done sanding.

jakec · « **Reply #33 on:** April 07, 2019, 09:12:32 PM »

The old race did not stick out like this. Maybe someone else who has done this on the 400 can chime in.

jakec · « **Reply #34 on:** April 09, 2019, 09:45:52 PM »

Below you can see that the top race is fully seated.

You can also see the there are some notches on the spanner nut. Should I grind them off? I tried again and I can only get about 1/2 turn on the spanner nut, otherwise there is resistance to turning the head.

I also noticed some slack st the bottom race. So tomorrow I can probably bang it down a bit further. That may give me some more slack but I’m not sure how much.

754 · « **Reply #35 on:** April 09, 2019, 09:57:46 PM »

The top race has to stick out, it's a higher race than standard.

scottly · « **Reply #36 on:** April 09, 2019, 10:04:10 PM »

Yes, the top race will stick up above the top of the frame steering tube; this is true of all models of the SOHC fours, as far as I know. The bearings are common to all models also. When fully seated, there should be one or more threads visible above the spanner nut. You should NOT have to grind off the notches.

jakec · « **Reply #37 on:** April 09, 2019, 10:08:31 PM »

Ok yeah there is no way I can do anything at this point to get enough clearance to get the threads to pop out of the top of the spanner. If I went with the smaller washer I could get that difference back, but I still don’t think it wouuld go that far.

So basically I need to take it apart and go with the thin washer? I honestly don’t know if I have the emotional strength to do that.

754 · « **Reply #38 on:** April 09, 2019, 10:28:24 PM »

Did you notch your washers ?

jakec · « **Reply #39 on:** April 09, 2019, 10:36:47 PM »

No, I completely forgot because I waited so long between my initial attempt and then restarting. Probably the same reason I went with the thick washer. I just looked at the photo quickly (which seems to show that the large washer is correct) and went to work. I think the difference that is not considered in that method is the top race being different.

If I further seated the bottom race and then maybe ground the spanner nut, and was able to get a full turn or maybe 1.5 turns, would that be safe? Or should I just go ahead and start trying to get it all apart now?

754 · « **Reply #40 on:** April 09, 2019, 11:02:37 PM »

If you grind the spanner nut the dust seal comes off.
To remove spacer, you might be a ble to lift bearing by driving in a knife edge, then get a screwdriver in. Not sure how tight they were.

jakec · « **Reply #41 on:** April 09, 2019, 11:07:37 PM »

There is currently no top dust seal being used. That’s the common advice given here. Those notches in the spanner nut are just pressing straight on the back of the bearing. As for the lower bearing’s tightness with the neck - very very tight

ekpent · « **Reply #42 on:** April 10, 2019, 05:02:10 AM »

On the last 750 I did All Balls supplied a smaller washer in the kit that filled in where the notches are on the spanner nut. Way back when when I did another 750 I ground the notches off. I always use the thin large washer on them.

754 · « **Reply #43 on:** April 10, 2019, 07:03:43 AM »

The bearing is harder than the nut, you won't damage the bearing, maybe the nut is built that way to be able to deform if needed and keep nut flat on bearing.
If you mod the nut and it's not flats bearing may not have even pressure on it.

przjohn · « **Reply #44 on:** April 10, 2019, 08:03:19 AM »

I have done the same thing that is happening to you. If you work at it you can get the bearing off the way 754 has explained. I ended up beating the crap out of the bearing and just bought a new set.

With the new races in put both bearings in place without installing the triple and take a measurement of the length. With the spacers you want that measurement to have just a couple of the threads below the top bearing. The 550 I am doing right now took no spacers and I could still use the upper dust shield. The 75 400F I did took the small spacer with no top dust shield.

jakec · « **Reply #45 on:** April 10, 2019, 09:01:53 AM »

#$%* I wish I knew this beforehand

My least favorite part of working on bikes are the parts that require banging.

Do you have any tips for getting it off?

754 · « **Reply #46 on:** April 10, 2019, 09:19:21 AM »

Post #40. Get 2 junk knives or sharpen flat bar like a chisel.

jakec · « **Reply #47 on:** April 10, 2019, 09:25:08 AM »

I have a messed up chisel that I used to remove my stuck tach drive screw. I guess I will start there. Thanks!

przjohn · « **Reply #48 on:** April 10, 2019, 10:06:44 AM »

Quote from: jakec on April 10, 2019, 09:01:53 AM

#$%* I wish I knew this beforehand My least favorite part of working on bikes are the parts that require banging.

Do you have any tips for getting it off?

Don’t get caught up in trying to save the bearing, the kit is not that expensive. I just kept working at it with screwdrivers and a 3 pound sledge, but the Dremel was ready to go and I would not hesitate in cutting it off, and installing a new bearing. Probably could have reused the bearing on mine but had visions of riding along and the bearing coming apart.

jakec · « **Reply #49 on:** April 10, 2019, 10:13:07 AM »

I have a cutting wheel. Do you think I can just sit there and slowly cut my way through it? that would be nice.

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Author Topic: CB400F All Balls - Washers and Order? (Read 6428 times)