Author Topic: CB400F All Balls - Washers and Order? (Read 6425 times)

ttr400 · « **Reply #50 on:** April 10, 2019, 12:34:22 PM »

Hi,

You seem to be some issues here.

Some years ago myself and the other Kevin wrote up a "how to" on fitting the All balls kit to the CB400F.

If you PM me your email, i will forward the instructions together with photo's.

I could try to attach the instructions, but would have to email you photo's.

Note: do not remove your lower bearing, the thick spacer is correct.

Kevin

jakec · « **Reply #51 on:** April 10, 2019, 01:07:31 PM »

I would appreciate that. "other" kevin and I are kind of friends on here. Thanks!

My email is jakecorrington@gmail.com

ttr400 · « **Reply #52 on:** April 10, 2019, 01:40:48 PM »

Hi,

Email sent.

Cheers Kevin

754 · « **Reply #53 on:** April 10, 2019, 02:58:07 PM »

Cut into the washer, then a screwdriver will fit.
But as Kevin says, you may not need to.

jakec · « **Reply #54 on:** April 10, 2019, 03:11:00 PM »

I can upload Kevin's photos some time when I'm at work. According to his instructions you do use the top dust seal and then you just crank down the spanner nut. I was only finger tightening because any tighter than that and the head didn't want to swivel freely. I am pretty sure I need to seat my bottom bearing more.

My follow up questions for Kevin were how many turns did you get on the spanner nut and how "tight" was it in the end? His photos show the same amount of thread that I have now.

754 · « **Reply #55 on:** April 10, 2019, 04:01:34 PM »

If lower race is not down tight, you can get something in there to wedge it.
If race is not down the spacer would spin, I think.

jakec · « **Reply #56 on:** April 10, 2019, 04:16:00 PM »

yeah, I had previously thought the lower bearing was fully seated but last night when i took it apart to inspect I saw that the spacer could spin and move around a bit. So I will hammer it the rest of the way down... If we trust Kevin's advice to use the thick washer. haha

scottly · « **Reply #57 on:** April 10, 2019, 04:49:02 PM »

Quote from: jakec on April 07, 2019, 06:48:36 PM

Final clearance shown. About 3/4 turn on the spanner nut to finger tight.

Do I need the washer shown, if I’m not using the top seal? I assume it is only meant to distribute the spanner nut’s “teeth” across the flimsy seal.

There are about 4 threads exposed above the bearing, so you should be able to get 4 turns of the nut, provided there is no seal or washer installed. Maybe it's the buggered threads that are preventing the nut from turning? With the stem removed from the frame and no top bearing will the nut thread on all the way?

jakec · « **Reply #58 on:** April 10, 2019, 05:42:15 PM »

I repaired the threads and they are working fine now. I believe it is a combination of the recessed threads and the notches on the underside of the spanner nut which are making it less than you would think. Kevin’s description shows the same amount of threads but he just cranks it down with a wrench.

jakec · « **Reply #59 on:** April 10, 2019, 06:26:05 PM »

Here is the text from Kevin's instructions as well as what I see as the most relevant photo:

Quote

Fitting instructions for the Allballs steering bearing kit. CB400F

1.   As per the CB400F workshop manual. Remove the front wheel,forks,headlamp,clocks,handle bars upper tree etc. (if you don't know how to do this then you shouldn't be fitting this kit without some guidance)
2.   Unscrew the top adjuster nut and remove the lower triple from the frame, hold a towel under the triple to catch the steel balls.(18 upper and 19 lower)
3.   using a long punch tap out the bearing cups (evenly) from the frame.
4.   Clean off all the grease etc.
5.   Identify the parts in the new Allballs kit:
1 x Bearing assembly lower(50mm OD cup)
1 x Bearing assembly upper(48.5 OD cup)
2 x Dust seals(larger OD is the lower)
2 x Spacer washers(1xthick,1xthin)
6.   Install the new bearings cups into the frame.
Note: The larger OD is for the lower bearing.
To aid the installation freeze the cups before installation, make sure they are seated squarely and all the way to the lip. The upper cup will protrude +- 2,5 – 3mm above the frame(see pic)
7.   Now remove the OE race and seal from the steering stem. Use a +- 1/2” flat chisel at 90 deg and slowly angle chisel out to create a gap. Now use a round punch tapping around evenly until race is free. Remove the dust seal and clean the stem of any nicks etc. (See pics)
8.   BEFORE Installing the new Allballs 1.spacer,2.dust seal,3.bearing.
In the kit there are 2x spacers(thin and thick). Hold the bearing into the lower cup to check the distance to the frame,add the thick spacer, hold and check distance to the frame. It should protrude past the lower edge of the frame +-1-2mm(see pic). Try this with the thin spacer also.
Note: with the stock triples we have found the thick spacer to be the correct one to use. Discard the thin spacer.
You are now ready to install the new bearing to the steering stem. First install the spacer then the dust seal lastly the bearing (To aid installation freeze the steering stem for a half hr.,and/or warm the bearing) make sure the bearing is seated all the way. pack the bearing with a good quality wheel bearing grease.
9.   Apply grease to the upper and lower bearing cups, also pack the new upper bearing with grease.
10.   Install the lower triple,top bearing and dust seal. Install the upper adjuster nut(there will only be a few threads showing, this is OK as the seal will compress when tightened.) Tighten the adjuster nut all the way(You will need a C spanner or a shock adjuster tool works good) when tightening the nut move the lower tree lock to lock, back off the adjuster nut ¼ to ½ turn.
Note: before fitting the adjuster nut pack some grease to the upper bearing below the seal.
11.   After assembling the complete front end road test:
Check for smooth operation.
Check for knocking(loose)
Adjust as required.
12.   Double check all fasteners ! Wheels,forks,handle bars,BRAKES. Etc.
OK Checked? CHECK AGAIN.!!!!!!
13.   Job Done.

rupaulpierce · « **Reply #60 on:** April 10, 2019, 07:43:26 PM »

Thank you!

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jakec · « **Reply #61 on:** April 11, 2019, 09:21:24 PM »

I pounded the bottom bearing down a bit more so there’s no slack. Then I set it up like in Kevin‘s instructions. Mine looks just like his with the top washer installed. I cranked it down really tight with the spanner wrench but when I took it back off to check things I think doing so I had goofed the threads on the neck a little bit. So it is a little bit more difficult to thread. It’s still threads fine off the bike but when you’re trying to assemble it on the bike it’s difficult. I looked at where the notches on the underside of the spanner nut touch the bearing and they are basically the exact same diameter as the seating surface of the bearing. So it’s that tiny surface area that’s touching the bearing rather than the whole nut. I know if I grind those notches off I can get a lot more purchase on the bearing so I kind of want to remove them. I don’t see what it would hurt to do so.

jakec · « **Reply #62 on:** April 11, 2019, 09:37:53 PM »

I have a spare spanner nut from that parts lot i got, just tested the dremmel on it and it cuts just fine. I think if I take my time I can make the whole surface smooth and flush. I’ll wait and see if someone say not to do it, so far I have only seen people say it’s not necessary.

jakec · « **Reply #63 on:** April 12, 2019, 08:25:05 PM »

I ground the nut. With the seal installed I got a full additional 1.5 turns finger tight. So where before I only had a 1/2 turn, now I have two. I can get another turn with the spanner wrench. I believe this was a good move!

Now can anyone say how tight it should be? Finger tight feels right, almost no resistance to turn the head. Tightened with the wrench there is resistance.

scottly · « **Reply #64 on:** April 12, 2019, 09:37:30 PM »

Even three full turns only engages 1/2 of the threads in the nut; it's only about 6mm thick at the threads, so you need every bit of engagement. Also, if the nut doesn't screw down on the stem as far as it is supposed to, the upper triple will be relocated further up on the stem and the top nut won't screw on with the original washer.
Please post a pic of the lower tree at the junction of the frame tube, as it's installed now.

jakec · « **Reply #65 on:** April 13, 2019, 03:02:54 PM »

When I had first installed everything, including upper clamp, with only 3/4 turn or so, the chrom nut on top was still able to be put on with plenty of engagement. I am curing the upper clamp in the oven now and plan to put it on this afternoon and i’ll Take some pics.

jakec · « **Reply #66 on:** April 14, 2019, 09:28:01 PM »

Here are the available threads for the top nut.

rupaulpierce · « **Reply #67 on:** April 17, 2019, 06:36:16 AM »

Jake did it all come together?

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jakec · « **Reply #68 on:** April 17, 2019, 07:58:43 AM »

It is together. However I don't feel there was a consensus among the members here. My bike is still rolling. Final setup was thick washer and seal at bottom, ground notches at spanner nut and seal at top.

scottly · « **Reply #69 on:** April 20, 2019, 10:35:35 PM »

Compare these pics to the lower tree on your bike. Notice how close the the bottom of the tree is to the frame.

jakec · « **Reply #70 on:** April 21, 2019, 12:51:05 PM »

Wow yes that is very tight. I think with the ground spanner nut I am getting enough purchase though. And I also think that the notches are not needed with the new set up. So In the end it may be the same.

But yes other users in the future may read this thread and decide for themselves what to do. I do appreciate all your help.

rupaulpierce · « **Reply #71 on:** July 11, 2019, 03:38:33 PM »

Jake, do the cups the cups recessed in the steering stem, stick out, or flush?

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scottly · « **Reply #72 on:** July 11, 2019, 08:14:09 PM »

The upper "cup" sticks up about 2-3mm, and the lower "cup" is recessed a good amount, but I don't recall a number; maybe 6-7mm??

rupaulpierce · « **Reply #73 on:** July 12, 2019, 08:37:42 PM »

Quote from: scottly on July 11, 2019, 08:14:09 PM

The upper "cup" sticks up about 2-3mm, and the lower "cup" is recessed a good amount, but I don't recall a number; maybe 6-7mm??

Thanks Scottly. Reading over this again I see this was in Kevin's instructions that were re-posted. Got the front end disassembled tonight, but got hung up on the lower cup. I need a to use something else as a drift tomorrow morning.

jakec · « **Reply #74 on:** July 15, 2019, 08:54:26 AM »

Sorry, I'm not understanding the question. What do you mean by cups?

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Author Topic: CB400F All Balls - Washers and Order? (Read 6425 times)