Author Topic: Squirrel 2.0 (Read 7359 times)

river · « **on:** March 28, 2019, 06:54:18 PM »

It's been a while since I've been here. Part of the issue was that I got locked out of my account many many months ago. So I created a new one because there are some changes to Squirrel. First off, I was able to ride it regularly last summer but it was miserably uncomfortable. I suspected it was because of the clip on bars. I picked up a set of CB400 bars and was on the verge of installing them but was never real happy with the mini gauges that I had (and the speedometer had been broken for quite a while). So I picked up a Motoscope Pro and, during the fall, I dove in and did a bit of a rewire to get that installed along with the new bars. Here's the bike right after I got done with the installation and just before going under the tarp for the winter.

99FDDC47-EB71-4CB8-B9A9-DC115EAAA677 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

The gauge is incredible and I am so happy I got it.

5AE7939B-1416-4D2A-8FB3-F0FB4B2E8FD6 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

I also installed a Breakout Box so this is how things look in the headlight housing now.

340ADE16-75F8-477E-A537-91CA56B62BB7 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

It's been a long winter up here which is great because we need the snow after last year's drought. Several months ago I started getting the itch to do something. I wasn't sure what though. I didn't really want another full blown project so I started considering cutting the frame and doing a hoop and trying to make a solo seat. I just wasn't sold on that idea though. I'm a very beginner welder and didn't think a frame would be the best thing to start on. About a month ago I was milling around on ebay and saw a tank I wanted and I didn't have to think about it too much. It was perfect. It was going to need a little bit of work and some things that I thought would be a great way to get into some simple fabrication. A few days later it showed up.

It's a 76 500T tank and it was in much better shape than many of the ones I see on ebay that sellers are asking $300 or more for. I got it for $109 to the door. There is a small ding on the left side but it's on a flat spot and I think I'll be able to handle it (paint is not creased in that area either). I've always loved the lines on this tank since I saw Devin do one on his 550.

1DBC15E9-7D97-463F-81B9-999B66BCD61A by cneumann2000, on Flickr

river · « **Reply #1 on:** March 28, 2019, 07:33:00 PM »

In this picture you can see how far back the tank sits on the frame and how low the back is.

64B3360D-8B23-4E43-B239-2A6C7B3AC308 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

I did not want to mess with the frame studs for the C mounts and figured it would be more practical to alter the tank mounts. This would also allow me to run either tank. I knew I wanted the mounts to be 1 and 7/8" deep but they also needed to be shorter (in height) because this would raise the tank a bit (I knew I'd also need to run different bushings on the front mounts too). So I opened them up. After cleaning out the inside of the tank and making sure it was safe to grind on I opened up the mounts.

3F1D75AD-E3CB-4CAA-96AC-D94C101FBF96 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

Now the tank sat in the same position as the stock one did (just fore/aft for now) but I still had to fix the C mounts.

AEF36939-F084-4140-B350-239FFA1DEB03 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

I welded in a 1/8" thick piece to make the mounts narrower and then used 16 gauge to make a new C and weld that in.

ADE878A1-C7FF-4F5B-AE7F-02C3AFCE09E0 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

I just tacked that stuff into place and brought it home (I only have access to a welder at school where I teach) to check fitment. It was perfect. Things were going great. I took the tank back to work the next day to finish welding the mounts into place. When coming off the thicker metal I blew right through the tank.

C215411D-0A90-47B0-8B45-671AAC9E7D83 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

I spent a few days researching how to make this repair. In the end, and after a lot of practice on thin metal with holes drilled in it, I simply (and carefully) worked the perimeter of the hole, while keeping a close eye on the puddle and backing off when necessary and eventually spiraled in and closed it. I did a bit of grinding down and re-welding over sketchy areas. I know I suck at welding so please don't tell me something I'm already aware of. I'm learning and I wanted to do it on my own. Anyone can take something to an expert and pay to have it done. I truly wanted to do it. Here's how it ended up. I did submerge it in water after it cooled and pressurized it. No bubbles. I'll probably still have a radiator shop check it before using it.

731EB6CE-4200-4388-B8C1-0D486D554AB0 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

river · « **Reply #2 on:** March 28, 2019, 07:47:12 PM »

Next, I needed to deal with the rear mount of the tank. This was much easier. After some measuring, I made a tab out of 1/8"
steel, drilled a hole in it, and welded it to the stock tab. Then had to go back home to check for fit. Again, I got lucky. The rod in this picture just allowed me to mark the frame where I was going to drill it.

5AE79BF4-146C-4BE9-B939-CCBEA17C0EB4 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

This is back home with some washers and a steel rod in place to elevate the rear of the tank. I made this tab in between two parent/teacher conferences and still need to finish welding it and make it a bit shorter.

CFA19CFC-0202-4E1D-93AB-1D29EC93567E by cneumann2000, on Flickr

Now I had the tank sitting exactly where I wanted it.

50BE1167-0B49-4E6D-9F9D-D691417A9A76 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

river · « **Reply #3 on:** March 28, 2019, 08:05:45 PM »

The next obstacle was the seat pan. I had a spare 550 pan laying on a shelf and started measuring so I could figure out how much was going to have to come off it. I worked slowly on this part and trimmed bit by bit off until I was happy with where things were at. In this pic you can see the bottom of the seat pan is about 1/4" lower than the bottom of the tank. I really liked where I had the tank at and took a few days to marinate on things.

8A419B97-9ED9-4A55-8460-48FFA8C35733 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

Eventually, I decided I wanted the line from bottom of the tank to bottom of the pan to be closer so I trimmed a bit off the pan bottom. Once upholstery is done, I'll be able to make adjustments to the rear of the tank height to get the line the same. I also went back and took a bit more off the pan where it meets the back of the tank. I left a 1/4" gap after talking to several upholstery shops. Here's the pan as of today.

08DFC4EC-02EA-4E95-B41F-46C8D247D31C by cneumann2000, on Flickr

A551E550-C422-4AFA-A122-941EBA2068A9 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

river · « **Reply #4 on:** March 28, 2019, 08:13:30 PM »

I've talked to several upholstery shops in the last few days. I had one who complained that the pan was a hot mess (this pan is in great shape) and that upholstery was really hard to do but he could do it for $170 but it would take him a month or a bit longer. One said it would be zero issue to do but the estimate was $500. Late in the day today I talked to another guy who said it would be at least $250 but he was the only guy to say that he wanted the entire bike at his place so he could make sure he could get it right which I appreciate. I still need to paint the pan and then, once the seat is done, I need to deal with the one dent, and then relocate the petcock bungholio up about 5" or so. Then I'll re-clean the inside of the tank again and line it. I'll leave the paint as is for now although I have one idea that I really like and keep coming back to in terms of paint.

754 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 28, 2019, 08:37:06 PM »

Looks good..
Petcock bungholio.. that should go in our Dickshunary ..

river · « **Reply #6 on:** April 02, 2019, 06:16:49 PM »

Evidently, upholstery is very expensive in the Rockies. Every place I've gone to has been higher than the last. Today I got an estimate for a bit over $950. I must have gasped when the guy said the price because then he said, "Well....it probably won't take this long to do the sewing so....$800." Again, they wanted me to supply the foam or take the foam off my stock seat which I said no to because that seat will still match the other tank. I've got a fair amount of work in this now and would really like to see it finished but I may have to take myself street side for a few long nights.

SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan · « **Reply #7 on:** April 02, 2019, 10:31:52 PM »

For that price, you could fly to California with your tank and seat, fit it on a spare frame for an upholsterer to measure, pay for the upholstery and fly home.

70CB750 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 03, 2019, 03:23:21 AM »

Looking good!

kerryb · « **Reply #9 on:** April 03, 2019, 06:31:21 AM »

Quote from: river on March 28, 2019, 07:33:00 PM

In this picture un different bushings on the front mounts too). So I opened them up. After cleaning out the inside of the tank and making sure it was safe to grind on I opened up the mounts.

3F1D75AD-E3CB-4CAA-96AC-D94C101FBF96 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

Now the tank sat in the same position as the stock one did (just fore/aft for now) but I still had to fix the C mounts.

AEF36939-F084-4140-B350-239FFA1DEB03 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

I just tacked that stuff into place and brought it home (I only have access to a welder at school where I teach) to check fitment. It was perfect. Things were going great. I took the tank back to work the next day to finish welding the mounts into place. When coming off the thicker metal I blew right through the tank.

C215411D-0A90-47B0-8B45-671AAC9E7D83 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

I spent a few days researching how to make this repair. In the end, and after a lot of practice on thin metal with holes drilled in it, I simply (and carefully) worked the perimeter of the hole, while keeping a close eye on the puddle and backing off when necessary and eventually spiraled in and closed it. I did a bit of grinding down and re-welding over sketchy areas. I know I suck at welding so please don't tell me something I'm already aware of. I'm learning and I wanted to do it on my own. Anyone can take something to an expert and pay to have it done. I truly wanted to do it. Here's how it ended up. I did submerge it in water after it cooled and pressurized it. No bubbles. I'll probably still have a radiator shop check it before using it.

731EB6CE-4200-4388-B8C1-0D486D554AB0 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

Don't think your welding isn't good just because it isn't pretty! If it works, its good. As you gain practice, it'll get prettier, painfully slow process, but it does happen. Have you considered getting a sewing machine to do your own seat? A vintage sewing machine for $100 will sew vinyl just fine. I suspect you are a shop teacher (jack of all trades) it's just another machine...actually easier than welding!
Nice bike, I like your new options.

all part of the adventure

Gurp · « **Reply #10 on:** April 03, 2019, 12:37:18 PM »

Great looking work! Love the 500 seat!
Cant wait to see what you donwithbthe seating.

river · « **Reply #11 on:** April 03, 2019, 06:29:16 PM »

Okay I was able to get down to the shop today in between issues but got the tab for the rear mount pulled off. I had to clean it up a bit (make it a little smaller) and then weld it on. It didn't turn out real pretty. I was in a bit of a hurry to get to another issue and didn't notice what looks like spatter until I took the picture a bit ago at home. I guess I just didn't have the proper settings on the MIG? I think it will be okay still and nobody will ever see it. In hindsight, I wish I had made the tab a bit bigger because the reason it's basically tacked on (bit more so) is because the fasteners would hit the welds otherwise. If it's an issue down the road I can also do a larger tab.

5DB3C771-0294-4F5E-8126-FC30F3A89F71 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

Other side.

8DF080B4-D406-420E-9B41-5C421DD09640 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

river · « **Reply #12 on:** April 03, 2019, 06:40:46 PM »

Thank you for the kind words everyone. Cal's correct in that I am a special education teacher. I specialize in teaching reading and writing to students in middle school who are 3+ years below their peers. I also manage our students with behaviors and social/emotional learning issues as well as students with Autism Spectrum Disorder. We have a really nice metals class and, fortunately, the teacher let's me do whatever I want in there.

Anyway...now you both have me thinking about at least attempting to shape the foam myself. I've been watching a few videos and it doesn't look that difficult. I need to go look at foam types and then it looks like I can just use 3M adhesive to bind it together and then shape it with various tools. I've seen people use a tool (looked like Ryobi made it) that was essentially an electric knife (looked like a sawzall blade) to trim chunks off and then a smaller rotary air tool (similar to a grinder) but it used small abrasive pads to fine tune the shape, blend, and feather everything in. The most challenging part would probably be the crest of foam that needs to break as it hits the tank. Right now I'm going to focus on foam and see what I can come up with. I'll cross the cover bridge later.

Thank you for the suggestion/encouragement!

river · « **Reply #13 on:** April 03, 2019, 06:41:54 PM »

Quote from: calj737 on April 03, 2019, 06:34:27 PM

MIG settings were too cold, that’s why the spatter and cold toes.

Would it be smart to go back and hit those spots on a hotter setting? Any reason NOT to?

SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan · « **Reply #14 on:** April 04, 2019, 03:06:06 PM »

Does anyone have a recommendation for upholstery foam?

I've heard of members using yoga mats, but where can you get good seat upholstery foam??

river · « **Reply #15 on:** April 04, 2019, 04:58:02 PM »

I did quite a bit of research last night and watched a ton of videos. The foam you'll find at most retail stores will likely not be what we want. By the time I could call this place today they were already closed but I'm calling them tomorrow.

https://www.foambymail.com/LHQ/lux-high-quality-foam.html

McMaster Carr even sells foam in their raw materials section but they don't have many of the ratings listed that differentiate one foam from the next such as densities, and indentation force deflection (compression), etc. Since you're curious and, in case others that see this down the road might be as well, I will post back what I hear from them. I'm hoping someone will be knowledgeable enough to help me pick proper foam for this project. The link that I provided is some firm/extra firm foam that comes in thicknesses from 1" to 8" (I believe in 1/2" increments). Supposed to be suitable for benches, chairs, mattresses, etc. I'm just not sure if there's something else I should look at or if I should also consider a different foam for the portion that I'll actually be sitting on (like cutting a pocket into the main foam for something super plush but perhaps more expensive). The other thing I'm not sure of is if I should order 1" thick (or so) sheets or simply go with 4" since I'll likely shave some off anyways. Haven't seen anything yet about whether one way is more advantageous than the other. Seems thinner sheets would allow me to work gradually on shape but the thick sheet would require less adhesive (again, not sure if that's even something to be considering).

On a slightly different note, I watched a great video last night from Cognito where it documented a place called New Church Moto doing the upholstery on a seat that they just made for a BMW project. The gal did a gorgeous job on it. So I'm curious if I could get a shape I'm happy with, if I could send it to her and have it done. IMO, that would be well worth the investment. Here's the video:

river · « **Reply #16 on:** April 04, 2019, 05:50:40 PM »

Here's the video that Cal is referencing:

Devin mentions that he's essentially using carpet foam in 2" thickness. I have emailed him to see if he can provide a supplier for that foam so I can look more into it. I'll post what I come up with.

river · « **Reply #17 on:** April 04, 2019, 06:04:30 PM »

This is the paint scheme I am considering for this tank. I just love it. With a shortened stock pan and maybe the height of the seat down about 3/4", what would some of you do for upholstery? Initially, I was just thinking vinyl and try to have it looking stock but now I wonder if I should do something a little different? If you imagine a stock cover with vinyl sides and maybe the top being something different (maybe suede?) and/or maybe black vinyl sides with a dark gray top (again maybe suede but I don't know if that's a good choice for materials)? Stitching that is parallel and across like the stock seat had in it or diamond stitching? What would you do?

64CFDE6A-E5F1-40A5-875D-09D0055723A3 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

river · « **Reply #18 on:** April 04, 2019, 06:19:29 PM »

And I realized several weeks ago why I like the 500T tank lines as much as I do. It reminds me of the early BMW tanks and I think I want one now. Except I want the whole bike with the tank. Could be the next project.

SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan · « **Reply #19 on:** April 05, 2019, 06:59:19 AM »

Quote from: river on April 04, 2019, 04:58:02 PM

I did quite a bit of research last night and watched a ton of videos. The foam you'll find at most retail stores will likely not be what we want. By the time I could call this place today they were already closed but I'm calling them tomorrow.

https://www.foambymail.com/LHQ/lux-high-quality-foam.html

McMaster Carr even sells foam in their raw materials section but they don't have many of the ratings listed that differentiate one foam from the next such as densities, and indentation force deflection (compression), etc. Since you're curious and, in case others that see this down the road might be as well, I will post back what I hear from them. I'm hoping someone will be knowledgeable enough to help me pick proper foam for this project. The link that I provided is some firm/extra firm foam that comes in thicknesses from 1" to 8" (I believe in 1/2" increments). Supposed to be suitable for benches, chairs, mattresses, etc. I'm just not sure if there's something else I should look at or if I should also consider a different foam for the portion that I'll actually be sitting on (like cutting a pocket into the main foam for something super plush but perhaps more expensive). The other thing I'm not sure of is if I should order 1" thick (or so) sheets or simply go with 4" since I'll likely shave some off anyways. Haven't seen anything yet about whether one way is more advantageous than the other. Seems thinner sheets would allow me to work gradually on shape but the thick sheet would require less adhesive (again, not sure if that's even something to be considering).

On a slightly different note, I watched a great video last night from Cognito where it documented a place called New Church Moto doing the upholstery on a seat that they just made for a BMW project. The gal did a gorgeous job on it. So I'm curious if I could get a shape I'm happy with, if I could send it to her and have it done. IMO, that would be well worth the investment. Here's the video:

That's Ginger at New Church Moto (Oregon). She's considered to be one of the best seat upholsterers for custom motorcycles.

kerryb · « **Reply #20 on:** April 05, 2019, 07:24:21 AM »

Thanks for those videos, I learned a couple tricks for future use. Trying to learn seat covers, to do my own because I can't justify the expense of a custom cover. Here's my progress to date (wife was gonna toss the chair due to ugliness!) canvass-like fabric seat and vinyl back.
I understand your desire for a vintage beemer, I hang out at a beemer restoration shop on some Saturdays, it is infectious.

p.s. as a lowly "shop" teacher, I bow down to the special needs folks, they have superhuman powers!

river · « **Reply #21 on:** April 05, 2019, 09:24:38 AM »

I just got off the phone with the Foam Factory out of Michigan. They were extremely helpful. The person I talked to offered two suggestions for my project. The first dealt with using a neoprene rubber mat (available in various thicknesses up to 2") to lay on the pan. This is supposed to isolate from road and engine vibrations. It's used a lot in the aviation industry.

https://www.foambymail.com/NE-HQ/neoprene-high-quality-foam-sheets.html

Then you would lay thicker, open celled foam on top of that. Apparently, sitting on the neoprene rubber for extended periods would be very uncomfortable.

https://www.foambymail.com/HDHQ/hd36-high-quality-foam.html

The next option would be to use rebond foam (another open cell design) that comes in 1" or 2" thicknesses. This would go straight onto the pan in layers and trim to suit.

https://www.foambymail.com/R/rebond-foam.html

The rebond is over twice as dense as the HD36 foam and one of the measurements is ILD (compression). This is basically a number that represents what weight is required to compress the foam exactly 1". The HD36 is ILD 35. A half sheet of rebond (25" x 80") is $59. That's a lot of foam! I think that's the route I'm going.

river · « **Reply #22 on:** April 05, 2019, 07:21:04 PM »

I was planning on prepping the pan for paint tonight and getting that done this weekend but I ran into a snag. All along, I've thought there was something different about this pan than the one on I currently use. The 550 pan has two holes for the document holder to screw into and then two small tabs to hold the vinyl of it. This one does not. The bigger issue is that tonight I noticed that the holes for the seat lock mechanism to bolt to are completely different. The holes are about 1 9/16" apart on the 550 and about 3/4" apart and in a different location on this pan. So I carefully measured and drilled new holes. I won't get to paint this weekend and I'll need to weld in two fasteners to the pan sometime next week. We're in the middle of state testing right now so that will be a challenge but I'll get it done.

Thanks for the advice Cal.

BC0B6B3A-AE01-4D61-A2F5-1024819347B3 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

Gurp · « **Reply #23 on:** April 06, 2019, 03:48:53 AM »

Following your seat progress.what process of welding will you be using?

river · « **Reply #24 on:** April 06, 2019, 08:25:27 AM »

Funny you should ask. I know how to get in trouble with welding but it seems that getting the settings dialed in for heat and wire speed are critical and that’s where I have an enormous amount to learn. Until I become more competent, I’ll be using a process I like to call Box of Chocolates MIG because I take a guess and then see how things come out in the end.

On a serious note...in the past I’ve always just played around with welding and that’s easy. I’d grab some scrap and practice on it, get settings dialed in and then work on technique. This is so different because the tank and the seat pan are different thicknesses. For the pan, I’ll weld bolts in there and probably just tack them in but then I also need to make some modifications to allow for the document holder to be used. This is going to require me to weld in some very thin strips. Cal and others that are knowledgeable with welding, how can I be more sure that the settings are right? Do I just need to practice with that thinner metal before welding them to the pan? I’m guessing I’ll be in the ballpark enough for the welds for the bolts?

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Author Topic: Squirrel 2.0 (Read 7359 times)