Author Topic: Squirrel 2.0 (Read 6310 times)

SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan · « **Reply #25 on:** April 05, 2019, 06:59:19 am »

Quote from: river on April 04, 2019, 04:58:02 pm

I did quite a bit of research last night and watched a ton of videos. The foam you'll find at most retail stores will likely not be what we want. By the time I could call this place today they were already closed but I'm calling them tomorrow.

https://www.foambymail.com/LHQ/lux-high-quality-foam.html

McMaster Carr even sells foam in their raw materials section but they don't have many of the ratings listed that differentiate one foam from the next such as densities, and indentation force deflection (compression), etc. Since you're curious and, in case others that see this down the road might be as well, I will post back what I hear from them. I'm hoping someone will be knowledgeable enough to help me pick proper foam for this project. The link that I provided is some firm/extra firm foam that comes in thicknesses from 1" to 8" (I believe in 1/2" increments). Supposed to be suitable for benches, chairs, mattresses, etc. I'm just not sure if there's something else I should look at or if I should also consider a different foam for the portion that I'll actually be sitting on (like cutting a pocket into the main foam for something super plush but perhaps more expensive). The other thing I'm not sure of is if I should order 1" thick (or so) sheets or simply go with 4" since I'll likely shave some off anyways. Haven't seen anything yet about whether one way is more advantageous than the other. Seems thinner sheets would allow me to work gradually on shape but the thick sheet would require less adhesive (again, not sure if that's even something to be considering).

On a slightly different note, I watched a great video last night from Cognito where it documented a place called New Church Moto doing the upholstery on a seat that they just made for a BMW project. The gal did a gorgeous job on it. So I'm curious if I could get a shape I'm happy with, if I could send it to her and have it done. IMO, that would be well worth the investment. Here's the video:

That's Ginger at New Church Moto (Oregon). She's considered to be one of the best seat upholsterers for custom motorcycles.

kerryb · « **Reply #26 on:** April 05, 2019, 07:24:21 am »

Thanks for those videos, I learned a couple tricks for future use. Trying to learn seat covers, to do my own because I can't justify the expense of a custom cover. Here's my progress to date (wife was gonna toss the chair due to ugliness!) canvass-like fabric seat and vinyl back.
I understand your desire for a vintage beemer, I hang out at a beemer restoration shop on some Saturdays, it is infectious.

p.s. as a lowly "shop" teacher, I bow down to the special needs folks, they have superhuman powers!

river · « **Reply #27 on:** April 05, 2019, 09:24:38 am »

I just got off the phone with the Foam Factory out of Michigan. They were extremely helpful. The person I talked to offered two suggestions for my project. The first dealt with using a neoprene rubber mat (available in various thicknesses up to 2") to lay on the pan. This is supposed to isolate from road and engine vibrations. It's used a lot in the aviation industry.

https://www.foambymail.com/NE-HQ/neoprene-high-quality-foam-sheets.html

Then you would lay thicker, open celled foam on top of that. Apparently, sitting on the neoprene rubber for extended periods would be very uncomfortable.

https://www.foambymail.com/HDHQ/hd36-high-quality-foam.html

The next option would be to use rebond foam (another open cell design) that comes in 1" or 2" thicknesses. This would go straight onto the pan in layers and trim to suit.

https://www.foambymail.com/R/rebond-foam.html

The rebond is over twice as dense as the HD36 foam and one of the measurements is ILD (compression). This is basically a number that represents what weight is required to compress the foam exactly 1". The HD36 is ILD 35. A half sheet of rebond (25" x 80") is $59. That's a lot of foam! I think that's the route I'm going.

river · « **Reply #28 on:** April 05, 2019, 07:21:04 pm »

I was planning on prepping the pan for paint tonight and getting that done this weekend but I ran into a snag. All along, I've thought there was something different about this pan than the one on I currently use. The 550 pan has two holes for the document holder to screw into and then two small tabs to hold the vinyl of it. This one does not. The bigger issue is that tonight I noticed that the holes for the seat lock mechanism to bolt to are completely different. The holes are about 1 9/16" apart on the 550 and about 3/4" apart and in a different location on this pan. So I carefully measured and drilled new holes. I won't get to paint this weekend and I'll need to weld in two fasteners to the pan sometime next week. We're in the middle of state testing right now so that will be a challenge but I'll get it done.

Thanks for the advice Cal.

BC0B6B3A-AE01-4D61-A2F5-1024819347B3 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

Gurp · « **Reply #29 on:** April 06, 2019, 03:48:53 am »

Following your seat progress.what process of welding will you be using?

river · « **Reply #30 on:** April 06, 2019, 08:25:27 am »

Funny you should ask. I know how to get in trouble with welding but it seems that getting the settings dialed in for heat and wire speed are critical and that’s where I have an enormous amount to learn. Until I become more competent, I’ll be using a process I like to call Box of Chocolates MIG because I take a guess and then see how things come out in the end.

On a serious note...in the past I’ve always just played around with welding and that’s easy. I’d grab some scrap and practice on it, get settings dialed in and then work on technique. This is so different because the tank and the seat pan are different thicknesses. For the pan, I’ll weld bolts in there and probably just tack them in but then I also need to make some modifications to allow for the document holder to be used. This is going to require me to weld in some very thin strips. Cal and others that are knowledgeable with welding, how can I be more sure that the settings are right? Do I just need to practice with that thinner metal before welding them to the pan? I’m guessing I’ll be in the ballpark enough for the welds for the bolts?

calj737 · « **Reply #31 on:** April 06, 2019, 09:57:21 am »

Practice, experience and technique. CWD in MIG is critical too. Too long and you get a hot arc. Blow right through the thin stuff. A bit of scrap practice to dial it in is always best if the machine doesn’t have a guide chart inside the panel.

Important you understand the first 1/4” of any MiG weld is cold. It’s short circuit. So tacks are often very cold. I prefer a tight CWD and a bit more voltage for racking. I want wetted toes.

river · « **Reply #32 on:** April 06, 2019, 03:30:04 pm »

Ground down the stuff I didn't need and picked up some fasteners today.

F4CB2625-9C43-484F-BB3E-FD0C81AAD73F by cneumann2000, on Flickr

Deez nuts are just there to line things up for welding.

9BAF72D4-6D7C-43B4-AF16-1062C24A2983 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

Got the bottom all sanded and should be able to prime it real soon.

04D5AF28-60CB-49C3-B9EA-9B16FEAC191A by cneumann2000, on Flickr

I have all new rubber isolators coming. I was hoping to be able to use the document holder from my other pan but on this pan one of the screws would have to go into the corner of a raised ridge and I don't think it would hold very well or look all that nice so I may not even try.

calj737 · « **Reply #33 on:** April 06, 2019, 03:38:52 pm »

If you use the nuts when welding, be sure to coat the threads with antisieze. That will help the nuts release when you’re done.

river · « **Reply #34 on:** April 07, 2019, 07:49:28 am »

Thank you because I will use them to hold the bolts secure.

Gurp · « **Reply #35 on:** April 08, 2019, 06:18:59 pm »

Quote from: calj737 on April 06, 2019, 03:38:52 pm

If you use the nuts when welding, be sure to coat the threads with antisieze. That will help the nuts release when you’re done.

+1
I welded a nut to something and the bolt broke trying to turn out...

river · « **Reply #36 on:** April 08, 2019, 06:37:00 pm »

No problems removing the nuts.

I got the fasteners tacked into place today.

3C4C3C12-B0E6-4E7E-94D2-C76FFD93C1B2 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

930D482B-BEB9-47F2-BD6F-15FCCDC460D4 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

I was also able to finish prepping the pan and get it in primer.

4DBCF73D-BE82-47A4-9604-0DAC20D44F74 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

Supposed to be almost 70 degrees up here tomorrow so I should be able to get it painted after work. Then another blizzard hits Wednesday so clear coat will probably have to wait.

river · « **Reply #37 on:** April 14, 2019, 06:05:39 pm »

Got a little bit more done over the weekend. The tank had a small dent in the left side.

BE15ADA5-2275-4749-B047-BE6DA13AE532 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

It's not perfect but I can live with it. I plan to ride it like this for the season and then get it painted over the winter.

EDB45B23-86FF-457D-841F-202F75907D86 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

Also managed to sneak a little time in the shop at school and rework this rear mount tab on the tank. The tacks look much nicer.

C2ACA3F4-F632-429F-99C2-29D9E822FB91 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

Got the seat pan painted and cleared and new rubber isolators installed. The pan sits exactly where I wanted it to and the plunger for the lock fits beautifully.

966E0016-A927-4EFF-AC37-A4F9B71C14E7 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

4BB4A2F4-D397-4A2F-A06E-E8D21A11B27A by cneumann2000, on Flickr

793F60F6-E7FC-4FAA-9F7E-3923BF4CB5E8 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

Enough foam to do 8 seats should be here on Tuesday.

river · « **Reply #38 on:** April 14, 2019, 06:10:49 pm »

Oh and this is a drawing of what I'm thinking of in my head for the seat shape. Suck it Chip Foose.

24238ADE-D793-4B8A-AB39-828DFE2E7471 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

calj737 · « **Reply #39 on:** April 14, 2019, 06:31:06 pm »

I think Cam Rector had one of the best stock re-shaped seats going on one of his bikes. Or a Guilari would be a nice option too.

SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan · « **Reply #40 on:** April 14, 2019, 10:05:17 pm »

I would opt for vinyl or leather in place of the doo doo brown.

Great work, Chris!

Robbo · « **Reply #41 on:** April 15, 2019, 04:20:53 am »

Great job on the tank. How did you get the dent out?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

river · « **Reply #42 on:** April 15, 2019, 10:10:33 am »

Initially, I was going to try to go in from the filler neck but the area is so far down in that corner that I just didn't think I'd be able to be all that accurate. Then I was going to use the hole where the petcock bung is (it's going to get relocated) but I still wasn't sure it would be large enough. So, on a whim, I tried this Harbor Freight dent repair kit. It worked really well. In the right light, that area is still going to need some attention but there's also one or two very minor dings in other places. Whoever does the paint can tackle all of that since body work is not my favorite and I don't want to rattle can this tank.

https://www.harborfreight.com/crossbar-dent-repair-kit-66957.html

Robbo · « **Reply #43 on:** April 15, 2019, 02:26:56 pm »

Thanks. I have a CB550 tank with two dents. For the price of that HF kit, there’s really nothing to lose.

Much appreciated

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

river · « **Reply #44 on:** April 16, 2019, 04:05:00 pm »

I got called to jury duty today but was dismissed. Apparently, they didn't like me talking to myself over in the corner and rocking. When I got home, my foam was sitting on the porch. So I got right to work. I was a little disappointed to hear that some (Cal) didn't care for the shape. I mean...it wasn't centered in this pic and I knew that!!

A35DEAE1-832B-41E0-B389-E3CA0813496C by cneumann2000, on Flickr

river · « **Reply #45 on:** April 16, 2019, 04:34:39 pm »

All joking aside...I was concerned about the foam having as much contact with the seat pan as possible. Because of this, I decided to shape the bottom of the foam where it would meet pan. After a lot of measuring, marking, and shaping, this is what I came up with.

5DA38F11-A5D8-49F0-A04E-0C05B80D90BC by cneumann2000, on Flickr

Next, I sprayed the foam and the pan down with some 3M Super 77 adhesive and fit the foam. Then I stacked two 45 pound plates on it and let it sit for a few minutes. This was after a rough cut with an electric knife (which works wonders on this project by the way).

506BC911-FC51-4079-8553-20A8F07F5A8E by cneumann2000, on Flickr

I left a country mile of foam hanging off the front because I was really worried about where the pan meets the tank. I reinstalled the pan onto the frame (I did this at least a dozen times today). I used a Sharpie to mark the foam and took off bit by bit. I used a combination of the electric knife to take off big chunks, an angle grinder with an 80 grit flap disc, and a Dremel with a 1" disc on it (for the real fine work by the tank).

162A5EC8-0ABA-4E05-8271-0E1400434A27 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

After several hours of shaping, this is where I ended up.

2F30AE03-69D9-4742-B73C-A29085725D0E by cneumann2000, on Flickr

The foam still needs some shaping to match the contour of the pan all the way around.

6AF8606A-615A-470F-B7BA-F6F7A9105F5C by cneumann2000, on Flickr

The front still needs a bit more off. I stopped at this point so I could take a ton of pictures and send them to Ginger at New Church to see if she was going to laugh at me. So far, so good. She says things look tight. So I'll continue with shaping this first 2" layer and then look to add another layer. From the bottom of the pan to the top of the foam, it's 3.5" now and I'd like it to be around 4" or so. I need to talk to Ginger again and see how thick the material will be for the stitching and fine tune. It'll suck to have to add 2" and then cut half of it it off but this needs to look right. And for those interested...this is a bit of a nasty job. Shrapnel and dust gets everywhere. Even with goggles, my eyes hurt. I wore a higher quality filter to make sure I wasn't breathing this stuff in but I'm still coughing. My OCD was out of control as I was cleaning up.

11364460-1E0E-44B2-A104-F4FB81CCF7D3 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

river · « **Reply #46 on:** April 20, 2019, 08:44:27 am »

I was able to work on the seat for a few hours last night. I ended up deciding to pull the cover off the stock seat so I could have a better look at the foam. I made a template of the top of the seat's shape and then transferred that to mine. I used an angle finder in various spots on the stock seat to know how much to contour the foam along the sides as it slants up and in from the pan and then recreated those angles on mine. After a few hours this is where things were.

98CA6CD3-2595-47B7-A5F7-BCCE5F2413FE by cneumann2000, on Flickr

The stock foam comes down and covers up a lot of the pan but I think that would have been very hard to recreate and this seat should have a bit slimmer look to it which I don't mind. I was a little concerned about the metal where the upholstered grab handle bolts to showing through the upholstery but I think it's going to depend on how thick the material is and I don't know that it will bother me all that much if I can see it a bit.

7DD89162-A953-4ED8-8D2B-96846FFC65C9 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

The seat to tank transition has been very challenging. The 500t tank is about an inch narrower than the 550 tank. I trimmed a bit more than an inch off the length of the pan (from the front) so, overall, the front of the seat is now a bit wider than stock (plus I had to shape the pan and foam to match this tank. Getting this right has been stressful. It's not perfect but it's really close.

6AB60594-E603-477F-9B1C-15DD3145FCAC by cneumann2000, on Flickr

I ended up taking a bit more off the front of the pan last night because I think the material would have made contact with the edge of the tank and, eventually, ripped it. Also spent quite a bit of time shaping the foam here.

105D14F0-8ADD-4F5E-B8C1-DAC4E4FA8588 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

No passenger will ever sit on this bike because my wife is terrified of it but you can see a small bump in the foam. I should have taken a bit more foam out on the underside in this area but there's not much there to take out. I kind of like the thickness of the foam as it is now but this bump will look horrible if it's upholstered over so I'll add another layer of foam and then remove most of it. This will let me have a touch more foam at the front where it hits the tank and more over this bump. Then I'll take the foam down at the bump and get rid of it that way.

633E64BF-96E8-455C-8EE6-7515A18D7B80 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

And just because I love the good side of the bike.

FA58C0AE-E1E0-411A-9E10-35F5AAC51EAE by cneumann2000, on Flickr

river · « **Reply #47 on:** April 21, 2019, 08:11:51 am »

Long, messy day yesterday. Before I added another layer of foam I decided to go look at some memory foam at Walmart because I was worried about the rebond being a bit too hard. I bought a $15 pillow that had really nice foam. Once I got home I did some cutting on it and got two pieces that would fit the whole seat and went to work. This is after rough cutting the largest section.

0440EEA4-B006-4EED-85A8-2BBA82ADF1D2 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

After about an hours worth of work.

5507E205-C9E8-4E34-AC4F-DD169217F627 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

I added another, thinner layer on the front part of the seat. I was able to get rid of the bump in the back. Here's how things ended up.

B093031E-B114-4B7D-A3FB-2F8BC3BAA3B4 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

E59408EA-5DE1-4B40-9849-C370AC49A244 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

I'll take one more look at it today with fresh eyes but if I'm happy with it then I'll box it up and ship it off to Oregon for upholstery and get back to work on the tank.

SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan · « **Reply #48 on:** April 21, 2019, 08:52:52 am »

Chris will now be offering custom upholstery services!

river · « **Reply #49 on:** June 17, 2019, 09:36:33 am »

I haven't updated this in a while so here's where things are now. I added a bit more foam after putting the old tank back on and going for a ride to test things out. Here's the end product.

7E85B517-9A4E-4B2E-8019-E0A0E4FE3BE7 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

The next job was to relocate the petcock bung and weld up the hole where it sits from the factory.

83CC87A6-581F-4FD6-8C5F-C634DFBE6D42 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

And again, the welds are not pretty but nobody is going to see them, this is not a show bike, and I wanted to do it on my own. This was really difficult for me. I kept burning through the metal where I was patching the hole. There's also not a whole lot of room to install the bung where I wanted it and it was tricky for me to get the gun in between the edge of the tank and the bung. I could have moved it to the center and off that ridge but kinda wanted it there. I really wanted it to sit a bit closer to the stock location so it was centered between the head and carbs but that ridge gets too narrow and I wasn't confident I'd be able to get it all welded up.

A9E48801-E670-4CA2-98ED-592F18F95B00 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

Here's how it looks from the side. Not perfect but I can live with it.

79A91913-DE61-41F0-88AC-1090B9C32ACF by cneumann2000, on Flickr

I submerged the tank in the sink and plugged the petcock bung and fuel inlet with rubber stoppers. I drilled a small hole in the one at the bung and put a bit of pressure in the tank and held it. No bubbles. I went back and forth on whether or not to line the tank and decided to skip it. Then I went back in and cleaned the inside of the tank again. I've had really good luck with The Works toilet bowl cleaner and two boxes of drywall screws. I shook it up real well for about 30 minutes and kept checking things. Rinsed the cleaner out with water. Removed all the screws and got as much water out as possible and then dumped in 2 cans of acetone and worked that all around. Blew it out with air and then ran a blow dryer in it and put in fresh gas. Everything's been fine.

I have a feeling it might take a bit to get the upholstery done but that's okay. I'm waiting for Ginger to tell me to ship it to her. For now, I had a spare stock cover and threw it on just to protect the foam so I could ride.

F36F761B-A2F5-46ED-8B10-59E17999F110 by cneumann2000, on Flickr

And that brings us up to where things are right now. I've ridden the bike several times and love it. I got pulled over a few weeks ago by a PO that just wanted to check it out. I have everything I need to swap in the 650 cam but my garage is a mess right now because I'm off for the summer and am taking on a rather large home project where I'm ripping out all the flooring and carpeting and installing new so I have sawdust everywhere and will likely wait until things are less dusty before opening up the motor again.

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Author Topic: Squirrel 2.0 (Read 6310 times)