Author Topic: airboxes or pods  (Read 2904 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Ferryman

  • Guest
airboxes or pods
« on: January 25, 2007, 01:01:48 PM »
The general opinion today is that engines need a supply of still, fresh, air at a constant temperature and pressure to achieve maximum reliable power. So modern bikes mostly with fuel injection have complicated and rather large airboxes. When it comes to our thirty year old bikes the same belief prevails, but I wonder how true it is. Those of you who grew up in the sixties and seventies will remember that all British bikes breathed through open carburetors, and racing bikes especially had great huge gaping bellmouths. Now the function of the air filter as opposed to the airbox is to reduce intake noise and (obviously) filter out heavy objects of impurity from the air. Our bikes were built with air filters that conveniently lived in a big box. The point I am getting too is that if for example the amazing 1966 250cc Honda 6 cylinder racer could manage 152mph at 18,000rpm on open carbs then air buffeting could not have been a serious problem surely? By 1975 the square four 2 stroke 5oocc Suzuki racer was hitting 175mph without the benefit of air filters or boxes. The Ducati super sport road bike boasted two huge Dellorto’s with just a minimal bit of mesh covering the intakes to keep small animals from getting sucked in.
So in the interests of science I would like to know if anyone runs unfiltered carbs or just pods open to the air on all sides. I still intend to make some light alloy side panels for my k1 and see if there is any difference over the plastic all encompassing panels.


Offline seaweb11

  • 1st Mate &
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,258
  • Ride & Smile
    • Playground Directory
Re: airboxes or pods
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2007, 01:10:38 PM »
here we go again ;D

have you done a search for "pods"? lots to read.........
I have open to the wind pods and love em, it can take a while to get it all dialed in ::)

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: airboxes or pods
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2007, 01:14:12 PM »
It could be worse. He could have asked if pods are OK and what oil should I use, and, oh, should I wear a helmet?  ;D
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: airboxes or pods
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2007, 01:18:06 PM »
Are you making a race bike or street bike?  
How often are you willing to rebuild the top end of your engine?
Do you live in a dusty area?
Are you familiar with media blasting principles?
How enamored with carb dissmantling and reassembly are you?
How fussy are you with performance at all RPM ranges? (see first question)

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline ProTeal55

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,887
  • Est1968.com
    • Joe's Barbershop Chicago
Re: airboxes or pods
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2007, 03:30:06 PM »
I like V-Stacks myself...
Joe a.k.a ProTeal55 a.k.a JoeyCocks a.k.a Maker of Friends

masonryman

  • Guest
Re: airboxes or pods
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2007, 05:56:23 PM »
IMO air boxes are about EPA standards, the more consistant the air flow the leaner and finer it can be tuned. If you are about performance and not so concerned with smooooooth operation across the range of rpm's, then open velocity stacks all the way with maybe a foam biskit to keep out small critters. :o

I had a 1989 1000rr Ninja that had a ram air unit from the factory. It went from the air box over the motor under the tank to a scoop above the radiator more speed more air. the idle was awful but it was scary fast ;D

Offline KB02

  • Take it easy there, Sonny, I'm an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,760
Re: airboxes or pods
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2007, 05:33:48 AM »
yeah, just make sure no small critters get into your air box and eat that foam biscut.   ;D  I've had that ruin my day a couple of times.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2007, 05:59:58 AM by KB02 »
1978 CB750K Project
2000 Ducati ST2
...and a pedal bike

Join the AMA today!!

My project thread Part I: K8 Project "Parts Bike"
My project thread Part II: Finishing (yeah, right) touches on Project "Parts Bike"

Offline dusterdude

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,479
Re: airboxes or pods
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2007, 05:54:19 AM »
say what you want about air buffeting,but i definetly have issues with that at 60 or so mph,when i ride alone i get a lean surge about that speed and i when i have my gf on the back i dont.
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

Ferryman

  • Guest
Re: airboxes or pods
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2007, 06:06:35 AM »
OK sorry for stupid newbie question, I did do a search first but obviously not thorough enough.
Thanks for relevant replies, I'll just see how it goes.
 
PS,  can I run the engine with no oil in it so it warms up faster? !!  ???





Offline nteek754

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 364
  • 1973 K3/750/836/70 1970 750 chopper 1973 cafe
Re: airboxes or pods
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2007, 06:37:38 AM »
V stacks ?? to each their own but man dirt dirt dirt  I supose if you live in the city and it never rains or the wind donsnt blow  and yup there is the critter issue  I like my pods  have fun seven fifty four ever Craig in Maine
seven fifty four ever its not the destination its the journey Ive been collecting these old dinasours for 33 years . they are quite an ICON

Offline kuyarico

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 349
Re: airboxes or pods
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2007, 06:38:18 AM »
It could be worse. He could have asked if pods are OK and what oil should I use, and, oh, should I wear a helmet?  ;D

and Do you like guns?  ;D

Offline Geeto67

  • A grumpy
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,823
Re: airboxes or pods
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2007, 08:06:52 AM »
I personally have found that a stock motor runs faster with the stock aribox and a K&N replacement filter in place (cb750) than with pods. If you have a lot of engine performance mods to the bike it think it can take better advantage of pods or open air stacks, but for a stock setup the aribox seemst just work better. This is just my own testing though.
Maintenance Matters Most

Offline nteek754

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 364
  • 1973 K3/750/836/70 1970 750 chopper 1973 cafe
Re: airboxes or pods
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2007, 08:22:00 AM »
Now on that note  untill last summer I went to  an 836 power plant before that was running a stock  750 73 K with pods and kerker no bafle just cone piece and sister on her 74 K runnig  a K&N filter inside stock box  well on mine rolling along if I would grab a handfull of throttle it would have a slight hesitation very slight then come alive now, not a bog mind you  where as with sisters doing the same thing it would fall on its face but finnaly come alive and run good all through the powerband  took me a while to figure out  it had to be that filter (no offence) to other post here but every thing else was identical pipes  jets rpms all the same  and now with my 836  differant jets but acts the same way with that minute hesitation and then  wow! hang on   I love it  you know its like a little kick to have it take off. have fun seven fifty four ever Craig in Maine
seven fifty four ever its not the destination its the journey Ive been collecting these old dinasours for 33 years . they are quite an ICON

Offline Geeto67

  • A grumpy
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,823
Re: airboxes or pods
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2007, 10:23:31 AM »
Now on that note  untill last summer I went to  an 836 power plant before that was running a stock  750 73 K with pods and kerker no bafle just cone piece and sister on her 74 K runnig  a K&N filter inside stock box  well on mine rolling along if I would grab a handfull of throttle it would have a slight hesitation very slight then come alive now, not a bog mind you  where as with sisters doing the same thing it would fall on its face but finnaly come alive and run good all through the powerband  took me a while to figure out  it had to be that filter (no offence) to other post here but every thing else was identical pipes  jets rpms all the same  and now with my 836  differant jets but acts the same way with that minute hesitation and then  wow! hang on   I love it  you know its like a little kick to have it take off. have fun seven fifty four ever Craig in Maine

I was having the hesitation too with my K&N in the airbox, until I moved the needle up one notch in the carbs and cleaned them throughly. Then it went away and the bike pulled like a freight train. Put the stock filter in with the new settings and the heistation came back, so it just goes to show you how sensitive these carbs can be sometimes.

ideally you don't want any hesitation as that is when plugs can foul (rich) or you can errode the barrier layer (lean). Too much of either can cause a hesitation. It is a pain in the arse but you should fiddle with the carbs till it goes away. Sometimes a hesitation can be caused by the bike not being properly warmed up too, so all adjustments should be  judged with the bike fully warmed.

Although CV carb throttle response is slower, because of the deisgn you usually don't have any heistation (unless something is wrong with the carb) because the slide adjusts to the engine's needs. this is why honda eventually went to CV carbs on the DOHCs.
Maintenance Matters Most

Offline dusterdude

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,479
Re: airboxes or pods
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2007, 10:47:21 AM »
It could be worse. He could have asked if pods are OK and what oil should I use, and, oh, should I wear a helmet?  ;D

and Do you like guns?  ;D
perhaps we could ask richard what he runs  ;D
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

Offline kslrr

  • There is always a Blaster when there is a
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,542
  • Raising her up right!
Re: airboxes or pods
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2007, 12:20:19 PM »
I ran podes on my 350 four after upgrading the coils and wires, having the cam reground and re-jetting the carbs.  It ran great when first started, but as the engine warmed up I noticed a change and there were definitely speeds at which it would hesitate.  I attributed this to the pods since the changes took place as the air around the carbs (which ends up going thru the pods) heated up. I could find no other reason for the changes in performance.   Now I am constructing a fresh air ram system with the pods up front.
Now  1972 CB350FX (experimental v2.0)
        1981 CB650c Custom with '79 engine (wifes)
        1981 CB650 engine
        2004 HD XL883C Custom
        1977 Yamaha XS750D (in progress)
Then 1972 CL175
        1964 Yamaha YGS-1T
No ride is a Bad ride

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: airboxes or pods
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2007, 01:07:08 PM »

PS,  can I run the engine with no oil in it so it warms up faster? !!  ???

Can't tell if you are kidding or not, but just in case.. no!
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: airboxes or pods
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2007, 01:53:38 PM »

PS,  can I run the engine with no oil in it so it warms up faster? !!  ???

Can't tell if you are kidding or not, but just in case.. no!

I beg to differ.  Running without oil will indeed make it warm up much faster!!

For a while... ::)
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: airboxes or pods
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2007, 01:54:40 PM »

PS,  can I run the engine with no oil in it so it warms up faster? !!  ???

Can't tell if you are kidding or not, but just in case.. no!

I beg to differ.  Running without oil will indeed make it warm up much faster!!

For a while... ::)

 ;) ;D
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Ferryman

  • Guest
Re: airboxes or pods
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2007, 01:34:44 PM »
Thanks for the feedback reference rapid warm up with no oil. Was I kidding? Well I've been riding and racing bikes for over 30 years so either I was kidding or i've just been very lucky or perhaps I'm a slow learner. You work it out!

You need to be tough to hang out in this forum eh?

As far as the holes in the sidepanels go, I was just having one of those days when I had to drill someone or something. The disc rotors were too tough so the panels got it!!

Whatever -  Dave

Offline gerhed

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,801
Re: airboxes or pods
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2007, 01:42:03 PM »
I'm running a screen on my Cycle-X carbs--mainly because it wants to run lean and I have the needle all the way at the top.
The screen brings it in to the right mixture.
Rides: 75 CB750F, 48 Indian Chief, 67 Triumph TR6, 63Honda CA95
          83 XL600R in CB360 Frame
          3-wheel electric tilting cycle