Topic: So, what's the big deal about powdercoating?

[gregwaits]

Just wondering why, with it costing so much to have it done, do people still powdercoat? Is it strictly a cosmetic issue, or is at an appearance thing?

[mrbreeze]

Well Greg,its an appearance thing and its a long term solution to paint deteriation. The stuff is like bullet-proof!!!!!!

[Soos]

For example....

Where I work, they powdercoat valves going into hot/abrasive environments(where sandstorms occour for example)...
But if you wanted to go crazy for a long lasting paint type job... use epoxy paints.

The valves we ship out for salt water exposure (ie. floating oil platforms), cold weather(places like greenland) &/or operating temps(ie natural gas) get epoxy paints....
I have been told they last 30+yrs without needing worked on... just don't try to sand epoxy paints... it''ll wear you out before the paintjob.

l8r

-=≡ Soos ≡=-

[medic09]

Soos, that is truly cool info.  Thanks!

BTW, in Hebrew 'Soos' is a horse.  What's it mean when you use it?

[masonryman]

The coating on most aluminum wheels on newer cars is powder coat, the color and the clear. First they charge the wheels with static electricity fog them with plastic dust then heat them up till it all melts together

[Soos]

Soos, that is truly cool info.  Thanks!

BTW, in Hebrew 'Soos' is a horse.  What's it mean when you use it?

Dunno... it came to me in a haze in past daze when i used to get high....



l8r

-=≡ Soos ≡=-

[mrbreeze]

Soos, that is truly cool info.  Thanks!

BTW, in Hebrew 'Soos' is a horse.  What's it mean when you use it?

Dunno... it came to me in a haze in past daze when i used to get high....



l8r

-=≡ Soos ≡=-

[gregwaits]

Thanks!

[nickjtc]

If powder coating is done properly (as in the proper prep work beforehand) then it is a very viable long term re-finishing process. The challenge is to find a powder coater who is proficient in our needs, rather than someone who is doing garden furniture and does bike work to be able to fill the curing oven.

[CrisPDuk]

If powder coating is done properly (as in the proper prep work beforehand) then it is a very viable long term re-finishing process. The challenge is to find a powder coater who is proficient in our needs, rather than someone who is doing garden furniture and does bike work to be able to fill the curing oven.

Therein lies the key. Just the same as any other job, 95% of the finish is in the peparation.

Bad powder coating is worse than leaving something uncoated, it chips and splits really easily and allows moisture to get under the finish, and it doesn't bubble like paint does on a corroded surface, so you'll never know yor bike is rusting away underneath you

[scunny]

re powder coating. I had my frame and all the bits and pieces  done for not much more than geting the parts blasted, purchasing the paint and primers then trying to do it myself ( I'm a believer)

[Soos]

Therein lies the key. Just the same as any other job, 95% of the finish is in the peparation.

Bad powder coating is worse than leaving something uncoated, it chips and splits really easily and allows moisture to get under the finish, and it doesn't bubble like paint does on a corroded surface, so you'll never know yor bike is rusting away underneath you

I'm personally hoping I did the prep work to mine good enough to not have prob's creep up on me in the future...
I am a cheap ****ard... since my work does have an oven big enough, and i was debating painting my frame anyways....

I figured $20 to get the guy who does the powdercoating to spray my bike was worth it.(about the same cost of tha rattlecans)
Even if i did fudge somewhere, it can't be any worse than the paint job from a rattle can my frame was going to get.

So far so good, no splits, chips, or unsprayed areas that I can see.

I did have to re-spray my rear swingarm though...... I made the mistake of not taking out the pivot(bar?) and the bushings out....
totally ruined the bushings, and flowed grease from the zirk hole onto the powdercoat job...(good thing I rathole spare parts!)
I must say however, the powdercoat was WAAAAAAYYYYY more difficult to sandblast off than the origional paint.

However, if I do it again, I beleive i will actually take it to a outfit that specializes in doing frames....
After talking to a reputable local company that does nothing but motorcycle parts and car parts, I was quoted 200-250 for all work for a frame,rims,trippletree,batterybox,swingarm. And I wouldn't have to do any of the work myself.
Besides, I would be able to choose color/texture as well as flat/satin/gloss finishes.

There is quite a rainbow to choose from....
I did black, cause the yellow and white available at my work didn't appeal to me too much.(beggars can't be choosers...)


l8r

-=≡ Soos ≡=-

[CrisPDuk]

I have an advantage in that in my former job before I came out here I dealt with several Powder Coating companies, who also got me a lot of the bits done for my various cars, so is the way I will be going with my frame when I eventually get started on it

Not decided on the colourscheme of thew bike yet, but the frames down to either burnt orange, or hammered finish metallic black, both of which are (expensively) available from DuPont's wide range

I might just have to buy another bike, and do both build schemes I'm liking the idea of

[750goes]

I had local engineer abrasive blast my frame, got some rust welded up, etch primed it myself immediately after the abrasive blast, then let it sit for a few days, then had it powder coated in a colour called "grey spangle" - more of a dimpled/textured finish - really happy with the finish its as hard as nails and it has a slightly dimpled feel to it - heres a few photos of the frame and triple trees....


files too big - will post in a minute

[750goes]

here they are

[CrisPDuk]

That's the effect I'm looking at, but darker

Get some pics of the assembled bike up here

[Uncle Ernie]

So- what are the pros and cons of Epoxy paint vs Powdercoating?

[750goes]

This picture was taken quite a while ago.......

[HondaMan]

For example....

Where I work, they powdercoat valves going into hot/abrasive environments(where sandstorms occour for example)...
But if you wanted to go crazy for a long lasting paint type job... use epoxy paints.

The valves we ship out for salt water exposure (ie. floating oil platforms), cold weather(places like greenland) &/or operating temps(ie natural gas) get epoxy paints....
I have been told they last 30+yrs without needing worked on... just don't try to sand epoxy paints... it''ll wear you out before the paintjob.

l8r

-=≡ Soos ≡=-

Thirty years, at least!
I had my tank/covers done in epoxy in 1979, still look great, except for the missing fiberglass parts of the side covers. I had the fairing done in Imron, and it didn't fare as well, needs paint now.

I kinda wish the epoxy had faded a little, the old gold scheme is reminding me I'd like blue now, and it will be hard to change! I'll have to go for a full sandblasting to get it off. Someday.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Hondaman,

60's, huh?! I don't remember a thing..... but I think I had a great time.

Bring your tank down. I just picked up 50# of glass bead for the new blasting cabinet and I need to try it out. Plus my garage is attached and it stays above freezing without my heater.

[Soos]

So- what are the pros and cons of Epoxy paint vs Powdercoating?

Today, I was talking with the other guy at work who did his frame as well he was contemplating powdercoating his oil tank and rear fender. He was worried about fading in the sun in the long run.


So I got curious, and checked out the specific powdercoat we both used.
It is a Polyester TGIC(Corvel Flex Black)... turns out it is made for outdoor furniture, and such...
Anyway, here is some info from the company ROHM HAAS on the powdercoats they offer.
This is only one manufacturer of powdercoatings, I'm sure there are even more varieties of blends/polymers out there....
Guess I got luck that the one thats on my frame is good for outdoors!

Heres the info from http://www.rohmhaas.com/powdercoatings/tech/pig.html

Acrylics
CORVEL® 50000 Series acrylic coatings are smooth, durable finishes which feature outstanding weatherability
and good chemical, stain, and filiform corrosion resistance. Clear acrylics possess excellent clarity.
Formulations are specially designed for aluminum wheels, automotive accessories, protective clear topcoats
for brass fixtures, and recreational equipment. Cure cycles can range from 5-15 minutes @ 325°-375°F (162.8°-190.6°C).


Epoxies
CORVEL® 10000 Series epoxy coatings are non-weatherable finishes which possess outstanding chemical and mechanical
properties. Epoxies are ideal for applications such as metal cabinets, sports and recreation equipment, furniture,
hand and power tools, brass plumbing and hardware fixtures, tool boxes, fire extinguishers, safety equipment,
appliances, wire goods, and automotive underbody and underhood parts. Cure cycles range from 5-15 minutes
@ 375°-400°F (190.6°-204.4°C). Film builds can range from 1.0 to 3.0 mils., depending upon gloss and color.
Continuous service temperature should not exceed 240°F (115.6°C), or an intermittent range of 240°-275°F (115.6°-135.0°C).


Hybrids
CORVEL® 40000 Series hybrid coatings possess good overbake resistance and Faraday Cage penetration.
Hybrids perform well in non-weatherable applications such as office furniture, metal cabinets, shelving,
interior lighting fixtures, power tools and automotive underhood parts. Cure cycles range from 3-15 minutes
@ 350°-400°F (176.7°-204.4°C). Continuous service temperature should not exceed 180°F (82.2°C), or an intermittent
range of 180°-220°F (82.2°-104.4°C). Film builds can range from 0.8 to 3.0 mils.


Urethane Polyesters
CORVEL® 20000 Series polyester coatings are weatherable finishes which have excellent physical properties and
overbake resistance. Typical applications include patio furniture, appliances, reflective lighting fixtures, lawn
and garden equipment, air conditioner housings, playground and recreation equipment, automotive accessories and
electrical boxes. Cure cycles range from 5-15 minutes @ 375°-400°F (190.6°-204.4°C). Continuous service temperature
should not exceed 180°F (82.2°C), or an intermittent range of 180°-220°F (82.2°-104.4°C). Film builds can range
from 1.2-3.0 mils.


High Yield Polyesters
CORVEL® High Yield (HY) polyester coatings are weatherable finishes which feature an accelerated cure cycle and
superior charging characteristics. These benefits translate to more parts per pound, and more parts per hour,
compared to other urethane polyester coatings. Since High Yield coatings have excellent charging characteristics,
 material utilization can be enhanced through improved first pass transfer efficiency and there is less need for
manual touch-up. Improved application characteristics and an accelerated cure cycle can result in an increase in
line speed. In addition, less particle breakdown during reclaim will result in a lower buildup of fines and greater
control of the virgin-to-reclaim ratio. The improved particle size and film build control will contribute to an
overall reduction in reject rate and better Faraday Cage penetration. Superior handling properties enable the use
of lower delivery and fluidization pressures. Lower pressures mean less impact fusion and less wear on system
replacement parts. Cure cycles range from 7-20 @ 360°-400°F (182.2°-204.4°C). Continuous service temperature
should not exceed 180°F (82.2°C), or an intermittent range of 180°-220°F (82.2°-104.4°C). Film builds can range
from 1.3 to 2.4 mils.


TGIC Polyesters
CORVEL® 30000 Series TGIC polyester coatings are formulated to withstand extended outdoor exposure. Outstanding
physical properties and overbake resistance make these coatings ideal for use on lawn and garden equipment, fencing,
kitchen appliances, playground and recreation equipment, transformer tanks, outdoor lighting fixtures, wire cloth,
furniture, automotive/marine parts and vending machines. Cure cycles range from 5-15 minutes @ 325°-400°F
 (162.8°-204.4°C). The gloss for low temperature TGIC Polyesters is Ôøý50 units. Continuous service temperature
should not exceed 180°F (82.2°C), or an intermittent range of 180°-220°F (82.2°-104.4°C). Film builds can range
from 1.2 to 4.0 mils.


MORTEMP®
Mor-Temp® 99000 Series silicone-based coatings can withstand prolonged service temperature exposure up to 1000°F
(537.8°C) Ôøý ideal for applications such as barbecue grills, engine exhaust components, stoves, furnaces, fireplace
inserts and lighting fixtures. Cure cycles range from 10-30 minutes @ 375°-500°F (190.6°-260.0°C). Mor-Temp formulations
offer outstanding color and gloss stability. Film builds can range from 1.0 to 6.0 mils.


Ultra V®
Patented Ultra V® coating technology meets or exceeds the performance of air dry and ultraviolet (UV) cured liquid
systems. ULTRA V® finishes provide an attractive, durable finish on heat sensitive fully assembled metal parts and
are available in a wide variety of colors and surface patterns. Package stable and recoatable, these coatings can
be applied by electrostatic spray or tribo charging guns and melted in convection, infrared (IR), or combination ovens.
Coated parts must be able to withstand a temperature of at least 175°F (79.4°C) in order for the coating to melt and
flow prior to a brief (one to 10 second) ultraviolet light exposure. The UV light quickly and thoroughly cures the coating.



Thats enough to confuse you on what to choose.....
If not choose a color.....

l8r