Author Topic: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild  (Read 3351 times)

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Offline VargVegard

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Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« on: April 23, 2019, 01:45:04 AM »
Hello Everyone!
I've been observing this forum for quite some time. Last year i came across a 78 CB750F that i just had to have. I rode it all of last year fully aware that this bike needed some serious tune-up.


It has around 75.000km on it (or 47.000miles for you imperialists), was leaking oil/fuel from a few different places, was running a bit hot i think, and was also juttering(is this a word?)/stuttering on low revs then disengaging the clutch - among other things.
After a lot of reading here on the forum and the manual (and Hondaman's book) i decided to do a full tear down and rebuild/swap everything that needs to go to get the bike to top running condition where i can trust it and ride it every day during the summer!

As mentioned in the topic i am a beginner when it comes to bikes (and not too experienced with engines outside having a toyota MR2 turbo back in the days, which gave me enough trouble to teach me a few things.)

ATM i have taken the engine out of the frame, and separated the top and bottom halves. Everything went suspicioulsy smooth, until i came to taking apart the cam setup. The middle bolts on the front Left and Right were not tight and came out with the treads on the bolts.... i assume this i something the previous owner have had done at some point, but now im a bit confused and anxious about what to do.

The pistons also looked in bad shape, and the valves looked like they have been strangely hot looking up into the cylinder. Im going to post a few pictures of the parts im not sure about so far, and would love it if you guys could help me to decide what to do, what i can keep and what i need to scrap.

Thank you all so much for a great forum, and im really looking forward to getting this bike on the road, With your help :)

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2019, 02:19:08 AM »
Welcome to the forum and nice bike you’ve got there. I’m not a 750 guy but it looks like your pistons and cam journals are totally fine. Not sure about the valves but if they’re not bent or corroded and still seal (maybe with a valve job) then I don’t see why they need to be replaced.

Since you have the motor out I’d get a frame kit to allow you to do top end engine work in the frame.

You’ll need to repair those threads with a thread repair kit like helicoil or timesert. Not hard at all since you have the head off. Or even easier for a machinist to do if you plan to have the head, block and maybe upper case decked to ensure flatness.

Offline strynboen

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2019, 03:11:45 AM »
750 Black engines..like to eat the valvestems and bores...but not a problem to thange. fix that and     then you have 50,000 km to have fun..before it need a overhaul..
velcome on forum from denmark
i kan not speak english/but trying!!
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2019, 01:28:10 PM »
New valve guide seals when assembling the valves again....
Agree on time serts, much better than helicoil in a CB750 engine. Normal with bad threads. Honda has some high torque settings and previous owner might have used no correct tool.
Max 10Nm on M6 in alu. 8Nm safer to avoid problems.
15mm thread depth no problem with 10Nm, many are grounder/shorter screw.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline PeWe

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2019, 09:29:43 PM »
Head, cylinder bores with pistons easier to leave to an experienced shop that can see and do what needed.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline VargVegard

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2019, 02:57:28 AM »
Welcome to the forum and nice bike you’ve got there. I’m not a 750 guy but it looks like your pistons and cam journals are totally fine. Not sure about the valves but if they’re not bent or corroded and still seal (maybe with a valve job) then I don’t see why they need to be replaced.

Since you have the motor out I’d get a frame kit to allow you to do top end engine work in the frame.

You’ll need to repair those threads with a thread repair kit like helicoil or timesert. Not hard at all since you have the head off. Or even easier for a machinist to do if you plan to have the head, block and maybe upper case decked to ensure flatness.

Thank you! ok, thats good to hear. I'll check the valves when i get a tool to remove them. Was just worried as they looked orange from underneath! Timesert looks easy enough, but i think i'll pass that work along to someone who has less chance of messing it up than me. Along with measuring bore and pistons etc.

750 Black engines..like to eat the valvestems and bores...but not a problem to thange. fix that and     then you have 50,000 km to have fun..before it need a overhaul..
velcome on forum from denmark

Thanks Strynboen! Do you know of any good scandiavian places for parts? waiting for parts from the US can be a patience killer :)

Google “timesert” and repair the stud holes with those. Then install new studs all the way around. If you measure the pistons, rings an cylinder bores, and they come up good, a flexible hone should be all you need.

Examine the valve guides for play, and if they’re good too, then just re-lap the valves (keep track of locations during disassembly).

thanks for the feedback! New studs all around the cams, got it. will the timesert kit be the same threads and bolt size as original? Being very maticulate about parts and possition, bagging everything seperately with description on zip lock bag and photos of the difficult stuff.

Head, cylinder bores with pistons easier to leave to an experienced shop that can see and do what needed.

I will definitely look into that

Can anyone tell me why some of the head studs are so dirty? and is it ok for the pistons to be scraped like that?

Thanks again for the replies guys, really helps a lot. much much more to come as i get further :)

Offline bryanj

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2019, 03:34:17 AM »
Timesert you buy as the inner thread which will be 6mm, trouble is the outer thread is a 10mm but not one af the "normal" Japanese ones.
Colour of valves and marks on pistons are common and not that bad. CMSNL (google) in Holland for standard but expensive bits but you are stuck with US firms for the better engineering bits. Whichever engineering firm does work for you make sure they understand the tight tolerances used.
The timeserts need to be sealed properly into the head and the studs sealed into the inserts or you will get oil "wicking" down the threads to outside.
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

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Offline strynboen

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2019, 04:11:35 AM »
yes ...cms.nl   for the speciels parts,, gaskets caburettor rubberparts .camthains and ignisions plates.gasket set.Things vho is importment for stabil ride..and safty

.e bay for the common parts like grip handel and standart parts..like light and sparkplugs
..dont bay emgo parts..the kvality is just too bad..and kaburettor rubber o rings is crap from many e bay sellers..

it takes some years and vasted Money,, to learn..hvere to bay parts...but often is the best vay..not to bay the lovest preis..kvality and preis have a often a konnektion..but not alvays..
i kan not speak english/but trying!!
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2019, 08:21:41 AM »
Time sert kit is not that cheap. I ordered from USA
https://www.threaddoctor.com/ipod-nano?search=&description=true&category_id=20&sub_category=true

Upon this kit a number of inserts since the inserts included in the kit is not enough for a CB750's urgent repairs and coming ones.

https://www.threaddoctor.com/index.php?route=product/search&search=M6&category_id=18&description=true

Mail them and ask about package price. I use mostly 8-9 mm carbon steel which is rather soft to file down if it will not go deep enough which happen all the time. Difficult to use the tool enough for the top to go deep enough. You will know what I mean.

20 inserts are not too many ;) Only the valve cover can consume 10. Cam holders 8 more + 4 for the studs.
Plus eventual stripped motor cover, chain tensioner housing etc.... My K6 has some inserts... My K2 build consumed 10-15 direct when I assembled the engine despite careful tightening by less than 8Nm on valve cover and a few other covers stripped threads with a good torque wrench.
I cheated with cheap heli coil on one exhaust M8 thread I secured extra with Loctite 272 (red hi temp) as I use on all time serts.

The thread doctor has also Big-Sert which is next step when a helicoiled thread is stripped or abused M6 time sert going up.
Check that you do not have rotten repairs in need of that set too. For that enough to have 10 inserts as what I see it. I have used a couple so far.

If the cam studs are going up off the alu (head has a curved surface upwards to stud). Time-sert, secured with Loctited 272, bolt sealed with
https://www.permatex.com/products/thread-compounds/thread-sealants/permatex-high-temperature-thread-sealant/

I have also plugged the hole on the outside for those studs, Spark plug cavities. Head upside down, clean the holes with acetone and close them with JB Weld after you have repaired the stud threads and assembled them if bad. This to ensure no oil leaks that way.

Permatex under rubber pucks under the cam holders.
Clean first with acetone, smear the brown/black thing on the machined surface for pucks, not too much. Let dry for an hour, place plugs on. Assemble cam holders and tight them with half torque. Remove them and clean off the overfloaded permatex with acetone. Make sure you have all 4 o-rings under cam holders. They must be a little bit thicker then the indents for them so they can seal well.
One important thing before is to remove the 2 oil orifices, blow the holes clean and clean the small alu orifices too. Good idea to save them safe before leaving head at a chop. They will fly if you blow head clean without removing them.

I heard one bouncing around in my garage once. (I have been careful for weeks, finally forgot I had mounted them and blew one extra....  I could recall all bumps against walls and finally find it. This scared me enough to order a set direct I saw one for OK money so I have next time I make a mistake.

This reminded me that I have a fresh refurbished ported k1-k2 head in need of at least 10 inserts. All cam holders plus more. One cam holder thread is an old bolt drilled and threaded M5. Probably a fight to remove. I think I'll used the drill direct, hopefully Ok with std time sert. Probably big sert needed.

Be careful with the cam holder threads when repair. Do not drill too deep and go thru to the head causing future oil leaks.  I drill alu M6 thread by hand, thread tap holder. Worst case a short drill not possible to drill too deep.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 08:34:38 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline MauiK3

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2019, 08:44:25 AM »
Another source for parts is www.Yamiya.com. Not sure about duty to you as they are in Japan.
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Offline VargVegard

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2020, 10:49:50 AM »
Hello again guys! One house move and renovation later, and im back working on the bike. Thanks for the help so far, i will need lots more before i finish this devil:)
Current problem: i snapped a bolt in rear of the top case, and now im unable to split the cases. I've beem trying to gentli tap it here and there and pull it apart but it wont give. What so i do? Please help, Im losing my patients and my mind :(

The bolt also had a groubd cable attached to it, if that matters.

Offline Tomshep

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2020, 11:07:45 AM »
David Silver Spares in England are worth looking at as well. Shipping is much less than from America. Venlige hilsener herfra.


Offline rotortiller

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2020, 11:41:16 AM »
Do not use a insert for the camshaft. Use a helicoil as they are stronger and use minimal material removal. In an area like a camshaft you want the best strength.  Use some high temp thread locker on the helicoil installation. It will actually be stronger than original.   Want proof:


Offline VargVegard

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2020, 12:32:00 PM »
Current problem: i snapped a bolt in rear of the top case, and now im unable to split the cases. I've beem trying to gentli tap it here and there and pull it apart but it wont give. What so i do? Please help, Im losing my patients and my mind :(
If you snapped the head off, then the screw shank is no longer preventing the cases from splitting. Double check all over the motor (front, underside, both sides) to insure you have all the bolts out.

Then, it make take some very gentle persuasion to cause the halves to separate. Some very gentle persuasion...
Thats what i thought too. The head is snapped off, so the cases should be free to split. But i think the rest of the bolt (thats stuck in the top case) is erroded stuck in the hole! i've added penetrating fluid down there. gently tapped the bolt with a screwdriver. used a rubber mallet arround the case, been semi gentle happering on a piece of wood. nothing will budge. Was able to get a tiny 1mm gap at the right rear of the case, but nothing else. All the bolts and covers are off. am i missing anything or is that bolt from hell keeping the cases from separating?
Do not use a insert for the camshaft. Use a helicoil as they are stronger and use minimal material removal. In an area like a camshaft you want the best strength.  Use some high temp thread locker on the helicoil installation. It will actually be stronger than original.   Want proof:

If and when i get that bolt out i will go for helicol, and on the camshaft as well. thanks for the tip!
If you need help with the rebuild, I have a 9hr long rebuild video:

Awesome job mate! i will definitely buy that video:) Good work!
David Silver Spares in England are worth looking at as well. Shipping is much less than from America. Venlige hilsener herfra.
Thanks! i'll definitely check that out:) Takk!

Offline bochnak

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2020, 12:48:34 PM »
Since that screw broke, it is acting like a real long dowel pin frozen in place. Spray it with penetrating oil and walk away for a day.

You mentioned that the rear case opened up. I'd work it open, then close it over and over to start to work it free. Use a piece of wood and GENTLE taps.

Good luck.

Offline VargVegard

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2020, 01:59:40 PM »
Since that screw broke, it is acting like a real long dowel pin frozen in place. Spray it with penetrating oil and walk away for a day.

You mentioned that the rear case opened up. I'd work it open, then close it over and over to start to work it free. Use a piece of wood and GENTLE taps.

Good luck.
Thank you. I have sprayed and waited several days, and gone from very gentle to little less gentle, and it wont budge mor than 0,5mm right rear and right front when i try and prt it apart with my hands (full force). I am at my wits end and contemplating smashing it on the floor any second.  It feels like several bolts are still on, but literally every bolt is out.

Offline MauiK3

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2020, 02:37:39 PM »
You would be wise to purchase Hondaman’s book before you get too much farther into this great project. It will save you a lot of headaches.
This book is THE resource for the details of these bikes.
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Offline VargVegard

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2020, 12:42:21 AM »
You would be wise to purchase Hondaman’s book before you get too much farther into this great project. It will save you a lot of headaches.
This book is THE resource for the details of these bikes.
Thank you, i have it allready :)

Offline bochnak

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2020, 03:21:25 AM »
With the case cracked open slightly, spray penetrating oil where 2 dowel pins are located, FFW to 9:29:


I think the broken bolt is the issue though.


Offline VargVegard

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2020, 05:10:52 AM »
With the case cracked open slightly, spray penetrating oil where 2 dowel pins are located, FFW to 9:29:


I think the broken bolt is the issue though.

Thanks ill try that! Yes looked into the hole and its rusty and nasty down there. Might try a bolt ekstraktor, or will that ruin the case if the bolt is stuck to the case itself?

Offline bochnak

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2020, 05:50:36 AM »
Maybe you can look into setting up a drill bushing and start drilling that bolt out. Even better let a machine shop handle it.

Have you tried some heat? Blowtorch?

Offline Tomshep

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2020, 06:17:44 AM »
The 400 has a shaft in the gearbox that needs to come out first. Is the 750 similar?


Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: Norwegian beginner full engine rebuild
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2020, 09:03:29 AM »

Can anyone tell me why some of the head studs are so dirty? and is it ok for the pistons to be scraped like that?

Thanks again for the replies guys, really helps a lot. much much more to come as i get further :)

Check out what Kenny says about 77-78f cylinder head stud holes.
Those orange exhaust valve can be fuel additives. Were the spark plugs the same color?
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