Author Topic: honda 150 dream blowing bulbs  (Read 2819 times)

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Offline hogwild

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honda 150 dream blowing bulbs
« on: April 23, 2019, 01:26:16 PM »
64 150 dream blowing bulbs when reving engine. At battery my meter says 9.5volts at idle but when reved goes to 16volts,thats when it blows the bulb.Also shocks me when i hold hot wire and ground myself.Rectifier is supposed to change current to dc volts so dont understand whats happening.Any help is appreciated.

Offline Don R

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Re: honda 150 dream blowing bulbs
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2019, 04:08:33 PM »
 I think the battery has a lot to do with controlling the voltage. It sounds like a bike running without one.
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Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: honda 150 dream blowing bulbs
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2019, 05:18:21 PM »
Surely the regulator should be controlling over charging and voltage going too high? Is there one and is it working? Some early versions are adjustable, have a manual? I’m guessing, but check.

Offline jgger

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Re: honda 150 dream blowing bulbs
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2019, 07:48:34 PM »
I gotta ask, you aren't running a 12 volt battery in a 6 volt system ,right? A lot of those old guys were 6volt.
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Offline hogwild

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Re: honda 150 dream blowing bulbs
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2019, 01:37:22 PM »
This bike doesnt use a v regulator,only a rectifier. As already stated,battery is supposed to help regulate the system. Ran it with and without battery,no change.This is a 6 volt system. Service manual says ac dynamo is self regulating for voltage,but it also lists rectifier output as 15v. I'm confused.

Offline hogwild

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Re: honda 150 dream blowing bulbs
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2019, 02:06:48 PM »
Does anyone know if an led bulb would tolerate that voltage spike any better?

Offline Robbo

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honda 150 dream blowing bulbs
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2019, 04:05:35 PM »
Sounds to me like you may have the wrong rectifier in that bike.
It originally came with a selenium rectifier.
Has it been swapped out?

Btw, an LED won’t solve the root cause.  You will end up boiling your battery dry and getting stranded.

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« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 04:07:33 PM by Robbo »
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: honda 150 dream blowing bulbs
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2019, 06:08:06 PM »
This bike doesnt use a v regulator,only a rectifier. As already stated,battery is supposed to help regulate the system. Ran it with and without battery,no change.This is a 6 volt system. Service manual says ac dynamo is self regulating for voltage,but it also lists rectifier output as 15v. I'm confused.

The old manuals didn't make some things very clear!  ???
The 15 volt output refers to peaks of the AC waveform following rectification, if viewed with an oscilloscope, into a load and not filtered by the battery. This becomes about 10 volts charge rate. The old selenium rectifiers also lost about 2.4 volts when new, 3.8 volts mid-life, and over 4.0 volts when old and leaky, as they also passed AC back-and-forth (hence the heating). They have a half-life of about 15 years, after which they become only 40% rectifiers, letting a lot of the AC voltage pass (boosted 40% above the zero baseline). If yours is getting warm (or hot) when running, it's time to replace it. You can't just plunk in a silicon rectifier in its place, though, as they have very different characteristics and much less loss. They result in higher rectified voltage.

Some have swapped out the old selenium full-wave bridge with a single diode for each of the dynamo coils to help reduce the overvoltage situation, using silicon diodes in place of the selenium parts. This reduces the charge rate of the main coils to about 70% of normal, as compared to a full-wave (silicon) bridge rectifier. That's one way to help slow it down, if yours has lost its selenium rectifier.

Make sure the grounding to the system is dead clean and shiny, too, including where the engine bolts to the frame.
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Offline hogwild

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Re: honda 150 dream blowing bulbs
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2019, 10:56:05 AM »
One thing i forgot to mention,when i tried with the battery installed it was cracked and completly dead,no water in it. guessing it should have a good battery to help control the voltage? Looks to be the original rectifier and it probably needs replacing also i didnt check its ground to the frame.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: honda 150 dream blowing bulbs
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2019, 06:26:26 PM »
One thing i forgot to mention,when i tried with the battery installed it was cracked and completly dead,no water in it. guessing it should have a good battery to help control the voltage? Looks to be the original rectifier and it probably needs replacing also i didnt check its ground to the frame.

Yes...the dry battery is no battery at all. It will not conduct electricity in either direction then, in nor out.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

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Offline Bodi

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Re: honda 150 dream blowing bulbs
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2019, 06:58:44 PM »
Yeah, a battery like that will definitely cause overvoltage and blow lamps. The battery is the "regulator" on the old ones.
Mark covered pretty much everything. There is no regulator as we would understand a regulator.
The alternator has 3 output windings, but it is single phase - you can connect the outputs together for more power (don't try this with an SOHC4 3-phase alternator!). For "lighting off" daytime riding, only one coil gives enough power for the ignition plus intermittent stop and signal light use - and only one coil connected directly to the rectifier.
The keyswitch also switches lighting with Dream bikes, I don't have a 150 diagram but that's very likely how yours works. At the "lights on" position the other two alternator output coils are connected to the rectifier, powering the added load of head and tail light etc.
The system is not good. Back in the day, it was normal to add water weekly and replace the battery yearly: they did not like the constant overcharging ... the only thing keeping the voltage within reason is the battery gassing off in overcharge (and going dry eventually). Once we saw the headlight flickering and the horn sounding warbly we knew it was time for adding water ... or for a new battery.
I use a silicon rectifier (on a CB77, same system) but added a series diode as well to simulate the Vf of selenium. There are also actual regulators (!) available for these old bikes. I'd like to try one.
The bike is not overcharging now though - it wants a bit of trickle charge after a ride. I should hook up a voltmeter and see what it's doing on a highway ride, but after a city ride or the city stage getting home from a highway run the battery is just under full charge. Hasn't needed water often either. Maybe I actually got something right?

Offline brewsky

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Re: honda 150 dream blowing bulbs
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2019, 03:25:51 AM »
If you have the old rectifier, ditch it before it lets the smoke out, and replace it. No need for a high dollar look alike unless you are going full bore restoration.

This works just fine on my Dream:


https://www.radioshack.com/products/50v-25a-bridge-rectifier
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Offline Bodi

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Re: honda 150 dream blowing bulbs
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2019, 06:07:25 PM »
If you do use a silicon bridge, you should add one 20A diode after it, in the red wire to the battery. This adds a bit of voltage drop to imitate the original selenium plate rectifier and reduce overcharging on highway runs.

Offline brewsky

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Re: honda 150 dream blowing bulbs
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2019, 02:15:23 AM »
Hadn't really thought about the need for an additional diode to reduce the voltage due to increased output of the more efficient rectifier.
I figured the increased efficiency would make up for some of the loss of magnetism of the rotor over time?
I didn't get much over 13.5  volts at upper rpm after the changeover on my 305.
The original selenium rectifier went up in smoke and allowed the battery to dead short to ground.
Probably need to re check it, as it has been in there 10 years now.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: honda 150 dream blowing bulbs
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2019, 06:04:00 PM »
If you do use a silicon bridge, you should add one 20A diode after it, in the red wire to the battery. This adds a bit of voltage drop to imitate the original selenium plate rectifier and reduce overcharging on highway runs.

That's a clever 'fix', Bodi, and a great idea!
:D
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline brewsky

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Re: honda 150 dream blowing bulbs
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2019, 11:29:20 AM »
If you do use a silicon bridge, you should add one 20A diode after it, in the red wire to the battery. This adds a bit of voltage drop to imitate the original selenium plate rectifier and reduce overcharging on highway runs.

Turns out you are right on the long run overcharge with the radio shack rectifier conversion.

After hooking up a voltmeter to monitor during a ride, turns out the voltage slowly eases up to a max of about 16v at upper rpm even with the headlight on.

Putting around town at mid rpms shows anywhere between 12.3 and 14.9v.

That contradicts the "conventional wisdom" that the 305 charging system is under designed.

May try the extra diode trick, lawn mower rectifier/regulator, or extra driving lights to see what happens.

Fortunately, the stock seat on a 305 is not compatible with long rides and senior rear ends!
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09 GL 1800