Author Topic: upgrade to c5 power arc ignition cb 500 four (Read 4219 times)

boyt666 · « **on:** May 11, 2019, 03:58:24 AM »

hello guys,

has anyone experience with this power arc ignition and rejetting ?
My bike ran great with a previous boyer brandsen ignition with 2 degrees more of advance...
I recently switched to power arc ignition with the triple spark and optical trigger technology , I'm wondering if
rejetting is needed ( ritcher or leaner ) with this conversion?
My spark plug caps are not optimal for the moment the bike starts up great and runs great under 5000 rpm.
from the moment I go above 1/4 throttle or above 5 k the bike doesn't respond well. For an optimal testride I have to wait untill my spark plug caps and cable connectors are descent crimped.

kind regards
Sam ( belgium )

ps thanks to all for the lots of info on this forum

robvangulik · « **Reply #1 on:** May 11, 2019, 05:59:25 AM »

Does your new ignition use the Honda spark advance or advances it electronically?

boyt666 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 11, 2019, 06:26:20 AM »

it has four different map settings fully electronic , to install you only have to set engine at tdc and turn the ecu unit until a led goes on.
All the 4 maps have 20 degrees static advance and the full advance varies from 40 to 32 .
the saturation of the ignition coils is also preset , no high revs less power and less heat build up i think ....

btw it's the same ignition as cycle x and there are some topics about it already on this forum

http://www.c5ignitions.com/motorcycle-ignitions.html

thanks for your reply

Bankerdanny · « **Reply #3 on:** May 11, 2019, 10:16:54 AM »

I don't see why rejetting would be needed. Even if it has a stronger spark that doesn't change the basic chemistry involved in the proper ratio of air/fuel required for optimal combustion.

Deltarider · « **Reply #4 on:** May 11, 2019, 01:54:15 PM »

Quote from: boyt666 on May 11, 2019, 06:26:20 AM

All the 4 maps have 20 degrees static advance

That's a lot. Engine will probably be hard to start.

Spanner 1 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 11, 2019, 08:29:05 PM »

Noooo, 5 or 6 deg. advance, static !

dave500 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 11, 2019, 11:55:42 PM »

put the boyer back on!

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #7 on:** May 12, 2019, 06:58:05 AM »

Quote from: dave500 on May 11, 2019, 11:55:42 PM

put the boyer back on!

Nooo! C5 is good!

boyt666 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 16, 2019, 09:58:12 PM »

hello ,
yesterday I did my 2nd testrun with 105 main jets iso 125 , with good sparkplug terminals and caps , 5k resistor plugs.
Same story , at 5 - 6k rpm the bike starts to stumble and hesitate.... In neutral revving it shoots even flames out of the exhaust.

Changed carbs now to run very rich with 130 main and neelde at 5th iso 4th clip position.
Alsi eliminate the rotary switch by connecting the 2 wires directly to ground ( map selection)

About the advance , I think you can't compare to a regular ignition because there is more delay , I tried to rotate the baseplate while running at idle to retard but the sweet spot is at standard position. before with a boyer you could hear it running better or not when rotating it ( rev climbing or descending)

robvangulik · « **Reply #9 on:** May 16, 2019, 11:54:37 PM »

Your engine doesn't care HOW the spark is generated, it just needs it to be at the right moment for the right rpm.
And when that doesn't happen you can change jets all you want but it will never run right!

boyt666 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 17, 2019, 01:19:45 AM »

problem is that I don't know if the spark has more power with the boyer or with the power arc to ignite more or less fuel . It was't my idea to change the carb settings but I'm realy desperate .
Carbs are bore out from 1/4 to full throttle . but run perfect with the boyer and my latest jetting.
I also don't like the connection from the HT leads to the coils with the springs inside , like more fixed connectors...

boyt666 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 17, 2019, 01:22:37 AM »

video on youtube with latest good running setup with boyer....

dave500 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 17, 2019, 02:22:30 AM »

put the boyer back on.

Scott S · « **Reply #13 on:** May 17, 2019, 03:11:50 AM »

Why such a large main jet? Have you made modifications to the engine/intake/exhaust?

dave500 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 17, 2019, 03:17:40 AM »

going by all the claims by all the aftermarket ignition makers you can run an engine on the spark alone?

boyt666 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 17, 2019, 03:53:31 AM »

modifications .... ported head, cb650 cam ( retarded) bored keihin ( 1st model 049a?) carbs , cb550 cilinder and pistons
gearbox undercut , extra small trochoild oil pump added on axle from the cb550, oil pump from cb650 , airfilter on base of a steeldragon breadbox style but modified with foam and chickenwire to mushroomshape ( sample itg formula 1 style , frame reinforced , new slightly wider rims and spokes, lowered front spring , koni shocks rear....
I know it normaly will be too rich but I wanna know how it will respond .
Somebody have any idea why ngk uses 5k ohm resistor and champion uses
1.4k ohm resistor spark plugs?
at some info from powerarc is 5k ohm enough and on other onfo you must use 10k ohm
resistor?

dave500 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 17, 2019, 05:51:01 AM »

your bike has a lot of modifications!theres a lot to be said for just leaving them stock,come play race with me one day?an ounce of handling is worth a pound of horsepower!

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #17 on:** May 17, 2019, 06:05:48 AM »

You know what your bike needs, Dave? A frame hoop.

Boyt, I’d recommend going to a dyno who knows carbs.

boyt666 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 17, 2019, 06:36:15 AM »

dave600 I live in europe ; belgium ...I will first rhave to ace over a lot of water....
I have a dyno result from 2 years ago with no carb modification and no cam timing retarded. It ran slightly rich .
see image ( if it works...)
now I feel more 3/4 to wot power but the dyno man is too busy with serious people who are trackracing modern bikes....
his father is unfortenitly pas away but he knew a lot of the old stuff, for the son who runs the company now the old bikes are new to him.... put a vtr or latest cbr1000rr in his hands and he plays with it.
so first of all I must have a good feeling on the street before I do a dyno run, the only thing we can test is exhaust AF but without the extra ignition connector from power arc ( extra 150 dollar) we can't program or modify the ignition settings.

Alaxy Galaxy · « **Reply #19 on:** May 17, 2019, 07:12:21 AM »

Quote from: boyt666 on May 17, 2019, 01:22:37 AM

video on youtube with latest good running setup with boyer....

AT 0:28

I didn't know Honda made a v-tec CB500F!

Why did you replace the Boyer with the Power Arc?

boyt666 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 17, 2019, 08:07:24 AM »

haha... indeed... that would be the missing bike .... a 500 v twin !

Guys... I think I've sort it out.... I'm a little ashamed to tell but before I changed the ignition I did a last vacuum sync and was forgotten to turn the vacuum sync bolts tight, 1 was already out and a second was loose....

This afternoon I did a testrun with the rich setup and could rev it to 6 a 7k rpm ,
suddently I noticed there was a bolt missing.... so it sucked a lot of false air thrue the holeof 2 cilinders...
Now it's fixed and rev it to wot with no hesitation at all ... maybe I will do another testrun this evening so the carbs
can be set to a normal AF ratio again ...

If I shouldn't notice the issue I would have ended with a 170 mainjet ....

I chainged to powerarc for better cold start and maybe better fuel burning ,
the cold start is a fact , now the running.... thumbs up !

TwoTired · « **Reply #21 on:** May 17, 2019, 08:43:47 AM »

Quote from: boyt666 on May 17, 2019, 08:07:24 AM

I chainged to powerarc for better cold start and maybe better fuel burning ,
the cold start is a fact , now the running.... thumbs up !

How much power does it draw from the electrical system?

Cheers,

boyt666 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 17, 2019, 09:01:27 AM »

do you mean amps or voltage ? No idea , it''s not mentioned at the website I think...
So got back from a quick drive ... the bike is fine under load , so when you ask for torque.
But when I want to rev it up above 6 a 7k rpm it still stumbles.
Now I will check the sparkplugs if the are shooted black or not... pffff

Another reasin why I changed was the boyer rotor with magnets . When I checked ignition timing with strobo it indeed bounces a bit and the power arc should be more stable...

Now back to my workplace....

TwoTired · « **Reply #23 on:** May 17, 2019, 09:34:58 AM »

Quote from: boyt666 on May 17, 2019, 09:01:27 AM

do you mean amps or voltage ? No idea , it''s not mentioned at the website I think...

Power is amps multiplied by voltage. Watt's law : P = E x I.

I know it's not mentioned on the website. And when I asked them, they wouldn't or couldn't tell me either. Brushed it off as unimportant.

But, the 500/550 charging system isn't known for surplus power. And some ignition systems tax it enough to make battery charge recovery problematic, particularly in stop and go traffic.

Good luck!

boyt666 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 17, 2019, 12:19:05 PM »

@ two tired : do you use a power arc too ?
Paul from c5 power arc noticed me to use good electrical wires ( I' ve used 1.5mm2 /0.06 sq inch to each coil separately ) , the coils were already prewired , so I guess this must be a good thickness...

they also claim to route the wires ( trigger leads ) away from the alternator wires .
The heart of all electric is under the seat , mounted on an aluminum plate ; the voltage reg / rec is underneath this plate while the wiring from the ignition runs on the upper side .
I don't know how much influence they could have , but to separate everything 4 a 5 inch distance on a motorcycle is almost impossible

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Author Topic: upgrade to c5 power arc ignition cb 500 four (Read 4219 times)