Author Topic: Frosty's First Cafe  (Read 4202 times)

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Offline FrostyB

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Frosty's First Cafe
« on: May 26, 2019, 10:59:48 PM »
Hi there folks,

So, as you can surmise by my title I am taking my first whack at building a cafe racer. To start, a bit about me. I am a three-time bike owner, over the course of about 12 years. My first was a 1995 Honda 600F3, followed by a 2011 Ducati 848Evo and finally a 2013 1199 Panigale. I've been at it across multiple continents and on the track and street. For the vast majority of the time I've been an owner, I've only had the motorcycles as transportation.

The Honda was a crashed bike I bought during my 1 year shwack at college that had been crashed by the owner while popping a wheely coming down only to be met with a curb. The front was totally gone, and I rebuilt that with just about no knowledge of what the hell I was doing or even of how to ride a bike. I spent many a long night awake hearing bikes ride by my #$%*ty apartment feigning for the day I'd have mine on the road. I shortly thereafter joined the Army and as a kid that was no longer living off ramen and mooching unsecured wifi, I was able to purchase the 848 with some deployment pay. The love affair with Ducati continued. I bought the 1199 while deployed to Afghanistan, picked her up on R&R, gave the dealer a handshake and proceeded to take a road trip from Dallas to Seattle over the course of 10 days. It was life-changing. Anywho, I recently crashed the Ducati the first day it arrived after separating from active duty, and managed to get caught between a road rage incident where I ate the back end of an SUV while doing about 65 to his 55ish. Two days in the hospital with some minor road rash, a good smack to the male bits, and a bruised ego I limped out. Since that day about 2 months ago I've been beating myself up and dreaming of the next bike. I came to terms with the fact that I no longer had the funds to purchase a new Ducati superbike as a recently reinitiated college student working as a beer brewer/bartender. So I decided to look into something I've wanted to do for a while - build a cafe racer. After about a week of feverishly searching every place I thought I could find an old beater to convert, I stumbled into a kid selling his project. I say project lightly, he'd managed to replace the dented tank and given up. It was a Honda 1985 Honda CB650. Luckily my buddy was in town who happens to be a shrewd negotiator. He managed to take a listing for a $1100 bike down to $200 title in hand. It was a damn steal.

So, here we are, I've got a new project and can actually look towards being back on two wheels. I feel like that 18-year-old kid freshly moved out and hearing bikes go by at night thinking 'that'll be me soon'.

I have decided to start a thread as I am a glutton for punishment and like to display my failures to as many folks as possible. But all jokes aside, I had been searching for an active forum that would hopefully help with some feedback and advice as I go through this new process. I look forward to chatting with you all.

Cheers,

Frosty

P.S. pics!
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 10:01:23 PM by FrostyB »

Offline FrostyB

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2019, 11:30:11 PM »
So I had my first post, but also spent today working on some initial pulling of parts to get a vision of what I am looking to build, and to give everything an initial once over to figure out what I was working with.

So some information I was given by the seller:
He purchased the current tank (dark blue with flecks) to replace the original as it was dented. I inspected it and it is clean with no fuel gunk or residue. That's a great start.
He told me it did start when purchased (JAN19), and he hasn't done much with it since. He was told by the previous owner that it needed some carb work.  Great *sarcastic*
That's about it. The kid had no idea. Possibly a big win for me, the guy that doesn't know too much more.

I picked up oil, a filter, rented a compression gauge, some carb cleaner, and the one spark plug the local shop had in stock. I then proceeded to remove some parts.

Getting into it I was pleasantly surprised. There was minimal rust, what looks to be all of the factory frame stickers, and the wiring looks surprisingly good. Most encouraging of all, after reading some initial forums about reseating the carb to the boots, all of the rubber seems very pliable.

Today's completed tasks:
Pulled the rear fairings
Pulled the mudguard
Popped the airbox off but had to go meet a friend that was my container mate in Afghanistan. I say container because it was quite literally a shipping container that had four beds and a wall thrown between two of them that we lived in together for a year.

Took some additional pics to show what I was working with:

Wiring condition:
As you can see, pleasantly surprised by the condition of the wiring.

Key body bits:
All looking darn good most with some rust removal and cleanup will be looking great. All of the clips and bits seem to be perfectly intact and not brittle at all. I will likely be selling some of these, I'll keep you all posted.

Processes:
One of the things I wanted to highlight here was me fighting with the mudguard. The airbox and fork springs are a perfect storm of not letting you get these guys out easily. I Thought I was going to have to drop the rear wheel when the *soobviousitslapsyouintheface* moment happened. Just pull the damn right shock off. Out she came right out.

The airbox seems to be a bit trickier, there's a screw securing some of the hosings to the battery tray that prevents me from getting it out of the way as it is all rusted to hell. By far the worst condition bit I've come across. I plan to tackle getting that out later this week by pull off the hoses, which I was a bit worried about being in much poorer condition than they are and running the risk of them turning to dust. I suppose they'd need replacing were that the case anyway. I digress.

Overall progress:
As noted above. I am wondering what the carbs will look like. The first goal is to get those suckers out and clean, throw some fresh oil and filter in her, charge/replace the battery, and see what kind of condition we're working with. The spark plugs and lines also look to be pretty damn new externally. NGK R plugs which I assumer aren't factory and look clean as do the boots.
As you can see, the clutch reservoir has french writing, and looks new. The brake appears to be stock - beat up without a clear window (not pictured) and with Japanese text.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 11:38:13 PM by FrostyB »

Offline FrostyB

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2019, 05:13:14 PM »
Day 2:

Today I pulled off the carbs and got did a cursory inspection and cleaning. I have a carb rebuild kit coming but wanted to give these a quick cleanup before and take a quick shot at starting her before I really broke them down and ran the risk of messing things up.

The battery tray is also out, just disconnected all of the hoses running to the emissions doodad and pulled it. I thought with that removed I'd be able to get the airbox out. No such luck. I couldn't find my larger wrench so I just left that for the next task. Overall she's getting naked pretty nicely.




Offline jgger

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2019, 05:25:25 PM »
Save ALL your original brass and needles, there are a lot of not so very good rebuild kits out there.
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Offline FrostyB

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2019, 08:44:53 PM »
Save ALL your original brass and needles, there are a lot of not so very good rebuild kits out there.

Yessir. Hoping this is a solid one. Here’s the link if anyone has any experience with



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Offline jgger

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2019, 09:11:38 PM »
Save ALL your original brass and needles, there are a lot of not so very good rebuild kits out there.

Yessir. Hoping this is a solid one. Here’s the link if anyone has any experience with



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No link that I can see.
"The SOHC4 uses a computer located about 2-3 ft above the seat.  Those sometimes need additional programming." -stolen from  Two Tired

The difference between an ass kisser and brown noser is merely depth perception.  Stolen from RAFster122s

Offline Joewago

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2019, 09:51:28 PM »
And some of those brass bits don't even come in rebuild kits. I spent weeks scrounging for the bit the needle slides through (I forget the proper name, it's like the main jet holder) after the PO tossed it "rebuilding" the 79 I own now.

Offline FrostyB

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Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2019, 09:55:58 PM »
https://www.amazon.com/Honda-Nighthawk-CB650SC-Carburetor-Rebuild/dp/B0785N6LFT

Here’s the link. The brass all seems to be there so I’m not as concerned about that unless I’ve got some seriously odd damage hiding somewhere. The o-rings and the seals are the primary concern. But I may end up needing the brass regardless. It should arrive Thursday and I’m off so hopefully can pull, slap everything in, and give you guys an update.

Edit to add:

This seems to be the seller’s home website. Just ordering through amazon for speeds sake. It’s good to know there’s a seller I can contact if things go too far south. Or even just to let them know it’s a flawed product if that’s the case.

http://www.scramblercycle.com



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« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 09:58:31 PM by FrostyB »

Offline jgger

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2019, 10:44:40 PM »
The issue with alot of the non kehin (sp.?) Is the brass parts quality isn't there and it makes tuning a pain in the butt. Plus sometimes the slide needles have a different taper on them which also makes tuning a booger. So just don't toss the brass until you see if you can get it running properly.

The link doesn't say who makes the kit and a bunch of members have had problems with the Keyster kits........just sayin'.
"The SOHC4 uses a computer located about 2-3 ft above the seat.  Those sometimes need additional programming." -stolen from  Two Tired

The difference between an ass kisser and brown noser is merely depth perception.  Stolen from RAFster122s

Offline dave500

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2019, 12:54:11 AM »
keyster are hit n miss,you realise you have one too many camshafts though don't you?

Offline Scott S

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2019, 02:52:02 AM »
you realise you have one too many camshafts though don't you?

 He can still share the build in the Projects section. We all like to watch the progress of projects and old bikes being saved.

 Frosty, welcome... to the SINGLE Overhead Cam 4 site. Feel free to share your build. Since you have a DOHC 4, if you have specific questions that aren't answered in your build thread,  please use the Other Bikes section.
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Offline FrostyB

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2019, 08:27:49 AM »
Didn't intend to sully the sanctity of the SOHC thread with my dirty dirty DOHC.

But in all honesty, my eyes scanned for anything that said cb650 and went right there. The rest didn't register.

Offline Bankerdanny

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2019, 08:49:22 AM »
Didn't intend to sully the sanctity of the SOHC thread with my dirty dirty DOHC.

But in all honesty, my eyes scanned for anything that said cb650 and went right there. The rest didn't register.

Welcome. No sullying has been done. The project section contains many threads on non-SOHC4 bikes and many members own various other vintage and modern bikes. There is an ocean of experience at this forum so I am sure if you have questions you can get them answered here. That said, I would also look for a DOHC4 forum. When I had my Goldwing I belonged to 3 different 'wing owner groups.
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Offline FrostyB

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2019, 08:56:33 AM »
Danny,

I poked around for a few days looking for something specific to 83-85 with some active folks and this is really the first forum I stumbled into that had anything even remotely close to what I was looking for. I feel like lots of folks do google groups and facebook groups and all of that now versus the original regular old forums. I sound old, though I'm only turning 30 this year, but I prefer this, and have noticed that typically you get the older fellas with more experience that tend to be less prone to letting their testosterone get the better of them and attempting to be some sort of alpha on the internet. Most importantly I feel like I can trust what people say in these sorts of places rather than the facebook groups. I feel like there are a lot of folks just talking out their ass. That being said, I am headed to toss a couple of things back on her and throw in a gallon of gas to see where that gets me.


« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 09:01:19 AM by FrostyB »

Offline FrostyB

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2019, 10:40:50 AM »
Well folks,

Had the battery on charge all night, tender says she was good to go. hooked her up, and, great news! The indicators and panel all light up. I decided to take a swing and see if she would turn over.

*click*

Everything dies. Great. So I inspected the fuses, all seem not to be blown, which has me even more worried. On top of that, someone put in a 20 instead of a 15amp fuse. That has me really worried. So now to hope for some advice. Where should I start testing?


Offline dave500

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2019, 12:09:10 PM »
does the headlight dim much when you hit the starter?the charger may indicate the battery is charged but it cant supply the amps,is the battery old?

Offline Bankerdanny

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2019, 12:53:35 PM »
If you have a jump box try that, otherwise you can jump from a car battery. That will rule out battery condition and you can move on to connections.
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that you never know if they're true" - Abraham Lincoln

Current: '76 CB750F. Previous:  '75 CB550F, 2007 Yamaha Vino 125 Scooter, '75 Harley FXE Superglide, '77 GL1000, '77 CB550k, '68 Suzuki K10 80, '68 Yamaha YR2, '69 BMW R69S, '71 Honda SL175, '02 Royal Enfield Bullet 500, '89 Yamaha FJ1200

Offline FrostyB

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2019, 01:07:51 PM »
Dave,

She went from everything lit up looking solid to not even the dimmest hint of anything with a touch of the starter button.


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Offline FrostyB

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Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2019, 01:40:14 PM »
The solid red wire coming from the starter solenoid is getting crazy hot. Going to chase that down.

Edit to add, jump wire from bike battery would not turn over starter. That may be due to the drain experienced or just a crap battery.

Test two was jumping from my truck, starter did turn over.

Test three- connected jumper cables directly to motorcycle +\-   Turned on the bike, still no indication the gauges were receiving power.

Issue remaining:

Power wire to starter from starter solenoid is hot to the touch.
There is still no power to the instrument panel and all other parts of the motorcycle.

Guesses:
Solenoid is dead?
Starter has high resistance?
Trying to start sent a power surge through a shirt that was exacerbated by the start attempt and melted the wire permanently?

I think I’m checking the power wire to the rest of the system from the solenoid up. Cutting open the sleeves for everything is going to be a blast. So if there are any suggestions before tomorrow I’d appreciate them.

I'd appreciate any input.



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« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 04:38:00 PM by FrostyB »

Offline dave500

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2019, 11:18:23 PM »
i rarely post on electrical #$%* I gotta see it first hand.

Offline FrostyB

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2019, 01:55:12 PM »
Big update.

Battery is like dead and I must have somehow not got a solid connection with the jumper cables yesterday.

Step 1: Disconnected starter, disassembled the ignition switch. Playing around with that I got all of the panel stuff to come on.

Step 2: reconnect starter. Hit the start switch. Same symptoms as before. Everything dies. Instrument panel, lights all that. Disconnect starter again, switch everything back on, all good.

Step 3: Jumper cables. Lights up, starter spins. Instrument panel stays on.

Pre and post turn over attempt photos.

Pic of the test results. Requires a charge are the results, but I’d charged it and gotten a full charge reading the other night.







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Offline 02z06dave

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2019, 06:31:13 PM »
As a fellow Ducati fan, I think you should have stuck with Ducati and gotten an older model. Haha. This looks like a nice project. I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with it

Offline FrostyB

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2019, 09:32:43 AM »
Dave, 

If I could’ve found one that was a solid enough deal I certainly would’ve.

Playing army games all weekend but I’ll be back at it on Monday.


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Offline FrostyB

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2019, 06:07:20 PM »
She lives.

Now for the fun work to begin. All of the bits and doodads I want to change


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Offline Scott S

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Re: Frosty's First Cafe
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2019, 03:20:58 AM »
 What did you find?
'71 CB500 K0
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'81 Yamaha XS650