Author Topic: Honda CB400F Cam Chain Problems?  (Read 10684 times)

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Offline LoopsAndLogic

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Honda CB400F Cam Chain Problems?
« on: January 28, 2007, 11:45:40 AM »
Hello,
 Newbie to the forum!

I have a 75' CB400F with 22k on the clock.
 My problem is, there's rattle noise from the top end and lower end of the motor and I'm pretty sure it's the cam chain.

The rattle is consistent from the top and bottom.

I found out by loosening the cam chain tensioner bolt, and while it's loose, I press on the tensioner shaft. I goes from loud to a mild loud rattle.

Does anybody think it could be the lower crank bearings or something else?

Is there another test I should do?

Would anybody know where I could find a Non-endless cam chain with a rivet master link?

What is the wear limit on the cam chain sliders?

I know a lot of people around the are I live just ride the CB's as is, and say,"They last forever, and I've been riding them for years".

Well, I really like quite engines!!!!!

 I'm still learning as I go, and I've never replaced parts on a 4 stroke, just rebuilt some 2 strokes.

Any help is most appreciated!

-Mike

My rides:
75' 76' Honda CB400F Super Sports
86' Honda XR600R for Street Madness
84' Honda Interceptor VF500

Past Rides:
80' Honda CX500C Fully Dressed
81' Honda CB650C very nice!
83' Kawasaki KZ550 A3
78' Hondamatic 400 Hawk
80' 81' 82' Honda GL500 Silverwing Insterstate

Offline Tim2005

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Re: Honda CB400F Cam Chain Problems?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2007, 02:25:00 PM »
That sounds like the normal camchain problem. Bottom end bearing rarely give any trouble on these motors.

You can get an split chain with rivet link from Dave Silver Spares. There's no precise limit on the slider wear, but when you do the chain you can take the tensioner slider out & check it visually- when new they're a flat smooth surface, light grooves are AOK but anything deep & it's time for a new one. Also check the bottom tensioner action while it's apart (plenty of previous posts on here about how to do that). You can leave the motor in & carbs & exhaust on to do the work, but it makes it much easier if you take the ignition coils off.

Cheers

Offline CBGBs

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Re: Honda CB400F Cam Chain Problems?
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2007, 06:54:49 PM »
My 400 has the same sound and I tried unsuccessfully to adjust the cam chain tension, but I have been told that the carbs may not be functioning properly and that causes it to be noisy at idle. Is this true?
Can you really install a new camchain without engine removal?
'66 CB77 Superhawk  '73 CB350G Cafe  '75 CB400F '65 S90  '78 CB750 SS

Offline Tim2005

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Re: Honda CB400F Cam Chain Problems?
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2007, 03:07:16 PM »
It's not just the sound itself, it's the way it becomes milder when you press on the pushrod. However, if the carbs are off balance it will make the whole engine noisier- mainly the primary chain and clutch though as the camchain is (should be) under tension. Sort your carbs out & you may find the rattles disappear (give everything else a decent service too). The best way to check the camchain is tensioning is to pull the rocker cover off & then you can make sure there's no slack in the chain.

Yes, you can do it. Not all that tricky either, just be extremely careful not to drop either end of the old chain down the tunnel once you split it (did that once on a 750 motor, oh dear....)

Offline LoopsAndLogic

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Re: Honda CB400F Cam Chain Problems?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2007, 04:01:07 PM »
I knew it was the cam chain  :D

 So David Silver Spares will have this cam chain..... Awesome!

Lets say I were to leave the cam chain in it's present state, will this cause engine damage or cam chain sprocket damage?

Also, sometimes I hear a clunking noise from the clutch when at idle. Is that an indication of a bad Clutch basket
or bad primary chain?

I know 22k miles is not new, but I love these SS bikes ;)

Thank you guys for the help, and I soon will be posting pictures of this build very soon,
-Michael
My rides:
75' 76' Honda CB400F Super Sports
86' Honda XR600R for Street Madness
84' Honda Interceptor VF500

Past Rides:
80' Honda CX500C Fully Dressed
81' Honda CB650C very nice!
83' Kawasaki KZ550 A3
78' Hondamatic 400 Hawk
80' 81' 82' Honda GL500 Silverwing Insterstate

Offline Raul CB750K1

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Re: Honda CB400F Cam Chain Problems?
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2007, 04:19:05 PM »
I read the 400F has a special way to adjust the tension because of that slipper blade. I know I have some tech articles from the Classic Mechanics magazine but I don't know where they are...

Offline LoopsAndLogic

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Re: Honda CB400F Cam Chain Problems?
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2007, 04:26:45 PM »
Yeah I know about the slipper issues.

I'm very surprised Honda had this problem with the 400F's :o

Even if I get through this riding season with her, she still was worth the $450.

Now if I can only find a Yosh header system ;)

Any idea's with my other questions?

Lets say I were to leave the cam chain in it's present state, will this cause engine damage or cam chain sprocket damage?

Also, sometimes I hear a clunking noise from the clutch when at idle. Is that an indication of a bad Clutch basket
or bad primary chain?


Thanks guys
My rides:
75' 76' Honda CB400F Super Sports
86' Honda XR600R for Street Madness
84' Honda Interceptor VF500

Past Rides:
80' Honda CX500C Fully Dressed
81' Honda CB650C very nice!
83' Kawasaki KZ550 A3
78' Hondamatic 400 Hawk
80' 81' 82' Honda GL500 Silverwing Insterstate

Offline Tim2005

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Re: Honda CB400F Cam Chain Problems?
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2007, 03:54:35 PM »


Lets say I were to leave the cam chain in it's present state, will this cause engine damage or cam chain sprocket damage?

Also, sometimes I hear a clunking noise from the clutch when at idle. Is that an indication of a bad Clutch basket
or bad primary chain?


Thanks guys

If you leave it loose, it will quickly damage the pivot part (the horseshoe-shaped bit) of the tensioner mechanism. Which (A) you have to split the cases to fit (b) is NLA from Honda. Not good at all! Have a search around this site, here's plenty of old posts about this, some with decent pics & diagrams too.

The clunking noise isn't usually a problem- a good service & carb balance normally stops it.

Offline aptech77

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Re: Honda CB400F Cam Chain Problems?
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2007, 08:34:40 PM »
Quote


The clunking noise isn't usually a problem- a good service & carb balance normally stops it.

Quote

+2

Offline GroovieGhoulie

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Re: Honda CB400F Cam Chain Problems?
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2007, 02:27:41 AM »
The camchain noise is normal.  These bikes had camchains that stretched like underwear elastic and the tensioner was a dodgy deisgn that worked on equal parts spring tension and voodoo black magic.

If not tensioned every 1000-2000 miles, it would get loose and start wearing into the adjuster arm, which as mentioned, is no longer available from Honda.  Once the adjuster arm is worn into, it locks up, precluding any further adjustment of the camchain.  Supposedly, a slack chain doesn't damage the engine, it just is noisy, however, one member here had a loose chain eat into the cylinder block and damage it.

My camchain makes noise and I am going to tear into the engine and replace it and repair the arm.  At that time, I am going to replace the chain with a DID solid-sideplate heavy-duty chain, which after the initial break-in period, should stretch less than the factory chain, requiring less maintenance and reducing the risk of damaging the tensioner arm. 

The tensioner arm is also used in the 350F, so if you find one of those, it'll work.

As far as the clutch noise, that's the fairly common "Clutch Rattle" which is the result of the clutch being vibrated by uneven firing impulses at idle.  The culprit is unsynced carburetors.  With some cylinders pulling more air/fuel than others, the firing impulses are more powerful in some cylinders, resulting in the cylinders "fighting" each other.  The crankshaft sets a vibration through the primary chain, which manifests itself in the clutch basket.  Sync the carbs and it goes right away.