Topic: Success!!! My goal of dragging a knee in a corner is fullfilled!!!!

[tsflstb]

Again...your "A" game might be somebody else's bad day.  A great rider can go up to and beyond a bike's performance evelope and keep it there.  You got in a slow corner, the back stepped out, and you lost it.  You see guys constantly losing/saving/losing again both ends of a bike at the highest levels of roadracing.  Hell, even the club racers who keep at it can ride on the ragged edge.  I've seen long black marks from a FRONT tire being left down the hill in AMA races at Road Atlanta.  The limit of traction is where these guys live.

Anyway, the tire thing...not about traction in a straight line, it's about traction coming out of a corner.  When you're hit with 150+ horsepower at 10,000 rpm on a liter bike, you need some traction.  That's why only the rear tire is big.  They'd make 'em both that size if it helped you corner.  Corner speed in itself is not a function of the tire's width.  Why does a 125 carry higher corner speed than a MotoGP bike?  It ain't because of the tire size...

990cc GP bike:


125cc GP bike:

[Einyodeler]

I did it all flawlessly (minus my judgement) and I am quiet confident to say that no one on earth could take my bike on that curve and at that speed and be able to keep it up.

Wanna bet ? 

[andy750]

"Quote
I did it all flawlessly (minus my judgement) and I am quiet confident to say that no one on earth could take my bike on that curve and at that speed and be able to keep it up."

Mmmm I DONT think it was so flawless (well not your technique thats for sure)....if you read this article about a guy racing on a CB400F he mentions getting his knee down....now if he can do it on a 400F then I would bet its possible on a CB550.

http://www.vrra.ca/sbond.htm

cheers
Andy

[tsflstb]

Tires got a lot to do with it, but even on dry rotted 30 year old hoops it can be done.

Bottom line, I think JP was too fixated on getting his knee down and failed to position himself on the bike to negotiate the corner.  I was just hoping to get that point across.  You can't do it "perfectly" and you can always improve your riding.  No reason to try and hang off on the street anyway.  Racers hang off on the track to keep from running out of lean angle.  It you have to "try" to get your knee down, you don't need to be doing it.

I spent my mid-20's tear assing through the mountains thinking I was great, but I've been humbled by too many superior riders on inferior machinery.  Finally realized, it ain't the bike, it's the rider.

If you got off the couch and tried walk up and hit a major league fastball, you'd swing and miss.  You wouldn't blame the bat.

[andy750]

"Finally realized, it ain't the bike, it's the rider."

Too true 

cheers
Andy

[clarkjh]

So, if the 550 scrapes pegs, would it bump knees?

James

[Uncle Ernie]

"it ain't the bike, it's the rider"
PREACH  IT !

Another thing, I don't know where you live, but around here there are dogs asleep in the middle of the road, turtles crossing (or sunning- it's hard to tell), wild turkeys, gravel, wet leaves, blah blah blah.  If you're riding with no margin for error, eventually you're going to stuff your bike.

[JP]

What you guys are saying is all great and dandy, but all I am really hearing is a bunch of guys that don't want to accept the fact that our bikes simply don't handle very well.  You keep on saying it was rider error and yet you haven't even seen the turn or condition of the roadway, haven't ridden the bike, and you don't even really know me.  Taking all that into consideration, it seems to me that many of you all are putting an awfully lot of blind faith into the abilities of these bikes.  I guess I did too, I was the one dumb enough to try it but I will not make that mistake again.

The article was great and the race seems like it would be a real blast, but to compare my experience with the authors experience is a dramatic difference in bike and road condition.

I know the article states that there are some greasy spots on the track, but I doubt that the knee touched in a greasy corner.  It was also stated that 1. the pavement was much coarser and that 2. he hit his knee on a raised section.

Now let's bring in the other factors, was he most likely riding on tacky racing tires?  Most deffinately.
Was his chassis reinforced to eliminate chassis flex?  Highly likely.  Was he on a bike that is known to be a better handler?  Absolutely.

So, to reassert my point- Do you really think that a stock framed and suspended 550, wrapped in $45 cheng shin tires is capable of leaning that far in a corner with a rise in it on a normal commuter street?  I was in the heat of the moment and I made a mistake in judgement- I should have never even considered it as a possibility.

But if you do, try it.  Until then, I am the only person in this thread that has had the cohonees (or lack of brains) to try it.  So it confuses me as to how the rest seem to know better how the bike that I was riding should react.

Please don't read this wrong, no anger hear.  Just a friendly debate.  It does kill me though how so far I am the one who has tried it and failed, and others who have not done it and know little about it seem to not be capable of believing me that my bike won't do it.  I am laughing at the irony
JP

[clarkjh]

"it ain't the bike, it's the rider"
PREACH  IT !

Another thing, I don't know where you live, but around here there are dogs asleep in the middle of the road, turtles crossing (or sunning- it's hard to tell), wild turkeys, gravel, wet leaves, blah blah blah.  If you're riding with no margin for error, eventually you're going to stuff your bike.

Ernie, right on the mark.
Been there, done that, bought the shirt along with the concushion causing blindness, don't want to do it again.  The bike had a slack tire, but it was still my fault.

James

[Einyodeler]

[seaweb11]

As I said..been there done that, do that. without falling over.  But very fast.

With that said lets see a few photos of said corner. 
.......the one where you tried to hang off the side at 30 miles an hour.  God I hope it looks like a U turn.

photos, photos, photos.....3 should do

all in good jest..........

[Hockers Choppers]

Hey JP, spend enough time here and you'll get all kinds of advise about things the advisor's never have done themselves!! I like your style! If I had the race pants on like you had, I'd tried the same thing you did, just to say "f you, you wouldn't have the nuts to try it!" I've never dragged a knee, had dirt bikes and Harley's for the last 26 years ( since I was 10 ) I got over the dirt bike thing of planting a boot in the corners! I rubbed through my pipes on the 2 Harley baggers I had over the last 10 years!! I'm riding a 78 supersport now and have dragged the pipes a few times but never a knee! So YOU DA MAN!!!!! Don't take no sh!t !!!!!!!

[JP]

Finally someone who sees my point!  It's so fun hearing people who haven't done it trying to tell me where I made my mistakes!

Seaweb, if you've done it- My hat's off to you.  I deffinately won't go take pic's of it, just don't see the need to prove myself that much.  But I think I can discribe it pretty well-  Sitting behind a car on a two lane street at a red light.  Light turns green and I wait for the car in front of me to get at least half way through the innersection so he doesn't slow me down.  The road that I am crossing is a 4 lane with a turn lane, so make that 5 lines total.  I keep the bike strait across the first three lanes and then at the fourth lane I turn hard left, trying to stay true to an absolute 90 degree turn. 

The turn actually has plenty of room to be made if I wanted to use all of the road.  But making the curve wasn't the goal, the goal was to drag a knee.  Therefore, I chose my line to allow for a harder turn to get the bike in a full lean.  The curve really didn't matter at all.   I could have tried the same manuver in a parking lot.

And Seaweb, please tell us about your story.  What bike was it?  What was the setting?
JP

[seaweb11]

 

[HITMAN]

Dang, I didn't think this would be such a hot topic.  There was a day I had a CB400T that I thought I was pretty hot on around corners, drug the pegs everywhere until one day I lifted the peg up with my toe and leaned a little further and found that the edge of the tire didn't offer much traction.  At that point where I saw sky-road-sky-road-etc tumbling into the ditch that crossed the line, my bad I was young and stupid. 

After talking to many racers and reading on proficiency I finally learned why one hangs off a bike in a corner, to reduce the bikes lean-angle which also allows a larger contact patch on the tire.  I really have to pay attention when I climb off my CBRXX and ride one of my older bikes (not as easy as you might think for me), but 20+ years of riding now I can appreciate how these older bikes make you slow down and enjoy the ride. 

Crashing only impresses those that lack proficiency, knowledge and experience.

Still glad your OK, check out a Sport Riding Tech book.  The first book I read really showed me how stupid and lucky I WAS.

[Uncle Ernie]

This is like watching American Idol.  JP, if you don't get why you're not going to Hollywood- that's OK.
 Riot on, brother.
BTW, you're so right about me.  I've been riding for 35 years and haven't done a thing or learned anything.  I was born old.  Stupid and ugly, too.


                       


 somebody hold me...

[paulages]

Finally someone who sees my point!  It's so fun hearing people who haven't done it trying to tell me where I made my mistakes!

can't see a knee touching, but i'm guessing this guy might put your foot in your mouth:
http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=13820.msg135153#msg135153

[heffay]

thanks for noticing the difference between replies JP... i sure do!

when kg eats it while riding one of those wheelies... give him a taste of his own medicine shortly after i give one of my restrained comments that includes a wink and a smile.   

[tsflstb]

This is like watching American Idol.  JP, if you don't get why you're not going to Hollywood- that's OK.
Riot on, brother.
BTW, you're so right about me.  I've been riding for 35 years and haven't done a thing or learned anything.  I was born old.  Stupid and ugly, too.

                     
somebody hold me...

You don't know how long I've waited to hear that...is that Old Spice you're wearing?

[Uncle Ernie]

Why, ye- !
 hey- get your nose out of there!

[Jugghead]

So, to reassert my point- Do you really think that a stock framed and suspended 550, wrapped in $45 cheng shin tires is capable of leaning that far in a corner with a rise in it on a normal commuter street?  I was in the heat of the moment and I made a mistake in judgement- I should have never even considered it as a possibility.

Well, I think here in lies your problem.  Cheap Tires on a decent bike.  Admittedly I run Cheng Shin on my 350F, but I don't go and try and drag my knee any where. Period.
When I re-rubber my brother's 77 550F this winter, I am putting on Metzlers or else Bridgestones, because I don't want him doing exactly what you did.  Ditching the bike when he shouldn't have to. It could get him killed. Period.
I want it to be as safe as possible, and therefore will spend the extra cash to make sure I don't have to spend the saved money on a casket.
That is why I will put the money into good rubber, and good brakes.  No doubt about it.
You are damn lucky.  I hope you know that. It seems like you do.  People DIE, every single day, on a motorbike.
I would hate to see any one of our members wind up a statistic.
It will be a sad day to mourn the loss of one of our fellow members, much less a family member, because of cost cutting shortcuts.
Please, everyone, ride YOUR ride, and don't exceed your skill level.  Take a humble approach and live long enough to improve your skills.

[heffay]

jugg... thanks for bringing that point to light.  i missed it in JP's book he wrote back there
i do agree and suggest the avon's (i'll check the model later)... i have them on my 350 and i've scraped peg so i know they stick.  granted, it was during the summer, the road was not cold and neither were my tires, i had gear on and just like jp... i knew what i was getting myself into.
i congratulate you JP. 
you told the masses to f*^k off and you tried what only a small percentage have.  no guts no glory.  you at the very absolute least, have guts.

[Uncle Ernie]

So heffay, you must REALLY be in awe of someone who goes around that turn just as fast (or faster), doesn't have to hang off, doesn't blow it, and doesn't feel the need to tell any one anything except he had a nice ride today.
Oh- but you wouldn't know all that, would you...
 
Getting cynical now. Time to go.

TTFN

[heffay]

So heffay, you must REALLY be in awe of someone who goes around that turn just as fast (or faster), doesn't have to hang off, doesn't blow it, and doesn't feel the need to tell any one anything except he had a nice ride today.
Oh- but you wouldn't know all that, would you...
 
Getting cynical now. Time to go.

TTFN

i've never dragged a knee and you can bet!!!... the first time i do... will be on the 400f race bike project.  so anyone that tries it on one of our bikes... yes, i have respect.  that was my point... what was yours again 
i know i'm a good enough rider to do it on my 7r but, i will not try it on the street nor will i destroy a cherry 92zx7r (never wrecked or laid down, near factory condition sportbikes are hard to come by you know... for pete's sake... all of the cowl mounting hardware fits every hole precisely!!!).  so, since i've never been on a real track (motocross aside) i haven't had the opportunity to test my skills/gonads. 

and the not hanging off part baffles me... you must "hang off" to distribute weight properly.  (at high speed)  or else the bike has too much lean angle.  if this doesn't make sense to anyone here please pay attention.  the topic was discussed not more than a page ago... and the theory is not disputed, it's physics.

[Klark Kent]

everybody just shut up and mind#$%* this bike.
-KK