Author Topic: Come on gang, lets search for clues as to why my cb500k1 is running rich  (Read 681 times)

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Offline hudstr

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My plan was to finish other projects before coming back to this to fix it but It is just too frustrating. It runs rich, plugs are completely black, doesn't return to idle without bliping throttle or forcing it back down by rolling throttle forward, when it does idle it is anyones guess if it will stay or stumble.

This is after just one ride after wire brushing the carbon off, before cleaning they were completely caked and all are like this.


It blows through the holes in my exhaust and you can see the carbon build up on the outside.


1972 CB500 k1: It is stock as can be, stock carbs, stock settings and jets(*we'll get back to this later), stock airfilter, carbs were completely cleaned 2 years ago, and it always ran like this so dirt isn't a problem. Valves, timing, points gap, new plug caps, everything I can think of for a tune up was done.

My theories so far:
I bought the bike partially in boxes so I don't know how it ran with the exhaust that came with it (last inspection was 1989). The exhaust it came with was 4 into 2 and more open than stock. Despite the jets saying they are stock 100 main and 40 pilot, I guess it is possible the po drilled them out for a different exhaust. If everything else fails, next step is to buy new stock jets from jetrus.

The only other thing I can think of is maybe the coils or ignition system in general is weak. I remember checking them with a multi-meter 2 years ago and put them back on but I don't remember the numbers. Can a weak ignition cause this rich condition? Any help is appreciated, I'm almost to the point of throwing money at the problem with new jets and maybe a electronic ignion and dyan coils.
When a passenger of the foot hove in sight, tootle the horn trumpet
to him melodiously at first. If he still obstacles your passage
tootle him with vigor and express the word of mouth the warning "Hi! Hi!"

Offline Scott S

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 That doesn't look rich at all to me. Maybe just a tad but not enough to worry about.
'71 CB500 K0
'17 Triumph Street Scrambler
'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline Scott S

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 And hanging idle is usually and indication of a lean condition or sticking advance or sticking cables.
'71 CB500 K0
'17 Triumph Street Scrambler
'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline hudstr

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This is the plug after turning the air screw out to 1 1/2. Stock specs are between 7/8 and 1 1/8. I'm sure it will be back to soot after another ride or two, and it would be even worse if I turned to air screw back to stock.

This is from the carb faq section

">>>Typical Rich Conditions

    Acceleration is flat, uneven
    Engine will "8 stroke" as it loads up and skips combustion cycles
    Throttle needs to be opened continuously to maintain acceleration
    Engine works better when cold
    Black smoke from the tail pipe
    Poor fuel economy
    Engine performance improves when air cleaner is removed
    If the pilot screw is overly rich, idle is rough and the engine won't return to idle without blipping the throttle
    Black sooty plugs, sooty exhaust pipe
"

I also only get around 30mpg
When a passenger of the foot hove in sight, tootle the horn trumpet
to him melodiously at first. If he still obstacles your passage
tootle him with vigor and express the word of mouth the warning "Hi! Hi!"

Offline bryanj

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Air filter
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline hudstr

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air filter is stock paper
When a passenger of the foot hove in sight, tootle the horn trumpet
to him melodiously at first. If he still obstacles your passage
tootle him with vigor and express the word of mouth the warning "Hi! Hi!"

Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Like Scott said if your plugs are all like that one that is not horribly rich. I would look at those jets and try stock ones to see if that helps.
Hanging idle is usually a lean condition like Scott said.
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

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CB750 K3 crat | (2) 1986 VFR750F

Offline Spanner 1

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Quit mopin' around town and give that thing an Italian tune-up. Do an open road 50 to 100mile ride @60 to 70 mph and keep the revs above 4k,  report back ;)
If your sure it's a carb problem; it's ignition,
If your sure it's an ignition problem; it's carbs....

Offline TwoTired

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Rich idle is typical.  Mark your throttle.  In top gear at very low speed, whack the throttle to one half open.  It should accelerate (slowly) without hesitation.  If you can whack the throttle more open than half and it still accelerates, then open the air screws a bit and repeat testing.  If you snap open the throttle and the engine wheezes and falls flat until throttle is returned, you've opened the air screws too far.

The idle is rich because the when the slides are opened, carb throat vacuum drops until intake air speed picks up.  And since the throat vacuum is what is pulling fuel through the jets, the mixture goes lean, while the extra air is available.  Over rich idle helps the off idle response.

Lots of idling and/or use of choke will soot the plugs.   They should self clean on a freeway jaunt, keeping the throttle above 3500 rpm or higher.   If not, you may have to drop the slide needles a notch.  Or add extra holes to the mains emulsion tubes to lean midrange mix.

The jets should have a K stamped on them if made by Keihin.  You want these.  The slide needles should have a 7 or 8 digit number stamped on them. (I don't have the number committed to memory, 2374003 or something close to this)  D26 numbers are aftermarket and likely have the wrong taper angle and diameter.

This is a high RPM engine, don't be afraid the rev it!  Better for the engine, ...and more fun, too!

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline bryanj

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Filter might be stock paper but how old and dirty is it?
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline hudstr

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filter is  less than 2 years old and only has like 1500 miles. It ran like this when the filter was brand new.

I will try some highway runs in a couple days when I have some free time.
When a passenger of the foot hove in sight, tootle the horn trumpet
to him melodiously at first. If he still obstacles your passage
tootle him with vigor and express the word of mouth the warning "Hi! Hi!"