Author Topic: wideband O2 working! or is it? it is! (Read 4861 times)

Don R · « **on:** July 19, 2019, 09:50:11 AM »

I finally found some time to make a test fixture, I've seen a few online and believe this one will work. It's similar to some seen here. I'm using an auto meter pro plus wide band sensor it operates a gauge and can data log also if want to spend the time and $$ for a small logger. I saw a diagram that showed how to make one at home. I'm not sure I'm up to that but want to get this running at least so I can watch the gauge while riding. Will be near the tach. And not near traffic so nobody have a cow.
This will work on the two 4-4 bikes, drag bike and hopefully the gl1000 stock pipes.

Don R · « **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2019, 10:00:26 AM »

Upon review of the instructions ( I know that's cheating) the gauge needs to see 13.5 Volts (so it knows the engine is running) to activate the sensor heater which draws one amp. I'm assuming the best place to read that is direct to the hot side of the battery. I planned to use the charger pigtail for a quick connect. pics soon.

Don R · « **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2019, 03:52:27 PM »

I drilled a stock baffle so the probe goes in past the interior baffle. Hopefully not much restriction inside.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/kVwQ3YNJdbaZcZ5FA

Don R · « **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2019, 07:59:02 PM »

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qESTbuR6XC5a3T2c7 With the petcock off.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/57EHyQvvgRkLBtNb7 Fuel on, engine cold no choke.

Sorry for the links, everyone can't see my posted pics. The toggle switch is for a wide open run to save the maximum lean reading for playback. Two wires may be connected to a laptop, two others are for a data recorder. I'd love to find a used cheap Auto Meter data recorder.

seanbarney41 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2019, 08:04:12 PM »

Guessing that your test fixture did not involve tapping a bung into those 4 into 4s

Don R · « **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2019, 08:05:49 PM »

Tailpipe probe into the interior chamber. And you guessed right. The gauge plugs into my battery tender connector and one bolt moves it to other handlebars. I'll use a small hose clamp inside the exhaust baffle to keep it from falling out. On other bikes, I'll fab something else. Can't wait to take it for a ride on a little used blacktop and do all 4 pipes. This cyl. previously glazed a plug, it had an exhaust leak at the copper gasket and some carb issues.
This fixture is just mig tacked, if it works, I'll grind the tacks and tig it.

seanbarney41 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 19, 2019, 09:36:55 PM »

My hand bent yoshimura pipe has always had a tapped bung in the end, and I wonder what it was there for back in the 70s or 80s

Don R · « **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2019, 10:19:55 PM »

Good question. I have a pyrometer too but won't drill pipes to install it. I doubt it would be much use in the back. I can't wait to but this on a bike with Webers and a 4-1 V&H on it.

PeWe · « **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2019, 11:57:30 PM »

Really handy gauge that show the ratio both with numbers and quick look by LEDs that can alarm when way too wrong.

Possible to ride bike with the sniffer mounted?
The Dyno guy that measured A/F ratio on my K6 sticked a long pipe into the exhaust to measure as close to the ex port as possible. Compressed air sucked the gases out thru the pipe on outside where the sensor sat.

The sniffer that Daytona Wego 3 has as example is attached on ex pipe's end.
I think it will work if making a run on the Dyno with the pros tooling, run similar run on the road and compare the values and make a reference formula.

I have a Daytona Wego 3 I have not hooked up yet. The Hindle 4-2-1 has a wide hole perfect for a deep sniffer device.

Don R · « **Reply #9 on:** July 20, 2019, 05:57:09 AM »

Yes it should work out while riding. The probe goes into the inner exhaust chamber of the muffler, it might need to be longer for headers. The efi on my dragster is really finiky what pipe I put the sensor on, my headers are slip ons and leak air at the merge. I got a sensor too close to the end and it ran awful. 1 or 2 seem to be the best primary pipes on the V8.

gschuld · « **Reply #10 on:** July 20, 2019, 09:01:02 AM »

Quote from: seanbarney41 on July 19, 2019, 09:36:55 PM

My hand bent yoshimura pipe has always had a tapped bung in the end, and I wonder what it was there for back in the 70s or 80s

I’ve installed a weld in threaded bung just past the collector for a Wego 3 on a machine bent Yoshimura copy pipe. It’s positioned there so it will fit inside the right fitting belly pan and out of the way for data logging.

George

Don R · « **Reply #11 on:** July 21, 2019, 10:18:46 PM »

That's my plan for the big motor with the V&H.

Don R · « **Reply #12 on:** July 23, 2019, 09:02:54 AM »

I got in a short ride this morning, at part throttle cruise, 3 to 4 thousand rpm it reads around 10-1. At idle, it goes way lean, I suspect it's getting some outside air. It has the early 4 cable carbs, 120 mains and stock pilot jets, 30 or 35? I'm interested to see what wide open throttle reads, that may tell me if it wants smaller jets or lowered metering rods.
This is all on #1 so far. It works great, it lights when plugged in, starts warming the o2 when it sees 13.5V and when the o2 sensor is heated it starts reading. It might be more fun with key on starting but it's a temp deal so,,,

Don R · « **Reply #13 on:** July 27, 2019, 03:28:48 PM »

It reads way rich at any cruise speed looks better while accelerating. I'm wondering if the probe is causing a flow problem where it passes through the interior baffle? I'll try shortening it up and make some mods.

Kevin D · « **Reply #14 on:** July 27, 2019, 05:03:48 PM »

Quote

stock pilot jets, 30 or 35

Stock low speed jet for K0/K1 is 40

MRieck · « **Reply #15 on:** July 27, 2019, 05:12:32 PM »

Quote from: Don R on July 23, 2019, 09:02:54 AM

I got in a short ride this morning, at part throttle cruise, 3 to 4 thousand rpm it reads around 10-1. At idle, it goes way lean, I suspect it's getting some outside air. It has the early 4 cable carbs, 120 mains and stock pilot jets, 30 or 35? I'm interested to see what wide open throttle reads, that may tell me if it wants smaller jets or lowered metering rods.
This is all on #1 so far. It works great, it lights when plugged in, starts warming the o2 when it sees 13.5V and when the o2 sensor is heated it starts reading. It might be more fun with key on starting but it's a temp deal so,,,

Yeah.......I have been there.

Don R · « **Reply #16 on:** July 27, 2019, 06:57:09 PM »

When I'm accelerating it's 12.8-1 to 14-1, as soon as it's cruising, 10-1 I suspect it's lower but that's as far as the scale goes.

MessnerMoto · « **Reply #17 on:** July 29, 2019, 01:51:07 AM »

I like this, probably better to tune it like this then on dyno table if you want to drive a bike

do you have links for the parts ?

CBJoe · « **Reply #18 on:** July 30, 2019, 03:48:12 AM »

Quote from: MessnerMoto on July 29, 2019, 01:51:07 AM

I like this, probably better to tune it like this then on dyno table if you want to drive a bike

do you have links for the parts ?

I think it's just one of these kits? https://www.amazon.com/Daytona-Twin-Tec-Metering-WEGO3SYS/dp/B000WK5JXG

PeWe · « **Reply #19 on:** July 30, 2019, 04:11:03 AM »

Info about the values to go for when measure and when.
http://www.afrplus.com/AFRplus-unit-functionality.asp

Don R · « **Reply #20 on:** July 30, 2019, 09:04:39 AM »

I got this with contingency winnings from racing. https://www.autometer.com/2-1-16-wideband-pro-plus-w-sensor-sport-comp.html

I'm doing some volunteer work on a friends dune buggy and need it out of my shop soon. I'll find some time to change the probe and report back.

dugsgms · « **Reply #21 on:** August 02, 2019, 10:05:55 PM »

10:1 is pretty rich for cruise and 12-14:1 under load is pretty lean for a these engines. When I did mine I was seeing about 1 to 2 points richer than what you'd want to see in a air cooled engine if you were looking for max power pretty much everywhere(e.g. 11:1 under heavy load and 13:1 during cruise). I wonder if the 4 into 4 exhaust is causing problems with the readings due to the somewhat infrequent exhaust pulses in each pipe(reversion?).

Also, be careful going after the ideal a/f readings given on the internet. They aren't ideal for a street ridden air cooled engine, especially one equipped with carbs that lack accelerator pumps.

MRieck · « **Reply #22 on:** August 03, 2019, 08:43:27 AM »

I had a WEGO on my 750 for quite a while. I had ....what I felt....the RS-34's pretty dialed in. Went to the dyno and ended up going down 3 main jet sizes. The idle A/F was very good. My point is the meter can get you close....especially the idle. The dyno will tell the real story.

Don R · « **Reply #23 on:** August 03, 2019, 09:43:55 AM »

I took on a free VW project for a lady in our car club that deserves some automotive help. It's almost done (hopefully) and I can spend some time on the meter again.
It would be fun to have it working when the webers and V&H header are on a bike. I don't think the readings are correct yet, especially in cruise. The probe may be causing some backpressure issues. The V&H collector will get a welded bung, I bolted the 4 hole back plate of an old gauge in the V&H for the appearance of a baffle. That may also reduce outside air reversion a little.

Don R · « **Reply #24 on:** August 24, 2019, 11:16:37 PM »

I took a ride with the o2 in place and tried the other 3 cylinders. It looks lean at idle but am guessing that's air contamination. At most rpm's the meter read on the safe side, 12.8 to 13.8. I do have the baffles out right now. Next time I'll replace the baffles, retest and set up a course where I can repeat rpm's and gears, stop and make notes on each cylinder. I'd like to see a WOT test at 6K or so too.
My toggle needs to be replaced with a push button to record the high (lean) number of each run.

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Author Topic: wideband O2 working! or is it? it is! (Read 4861 times)