Author Topic: Spark plugs are carbon fouled/ Air/fuel mixture screw.  (Read 1144 times)

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Offline Ratbike222

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Spark plugs are carbon fouled/ Air/fuel mixture screw.
« on: July 28, 2019, 07:03:28 AM »
I’m runnin on a 1975 Honda cb750F super sport. But have recently been having problems with starting up the bike. I checked my spark plugs and they are definitely carbon fouled (black, soft, sooty, residue on them). In the grand scheme of things, I really need to clean out my carburetors, but I’ve been holding off on doing that because the bike runs relatively fine, and I’m trying to enjoy as many nice days as I can out here in Western PA. This was going to be my winter project.

Ive read that the air/fuel mixture screw could be a cause to these problems (since I don’t want to open and clean the carbs). The problem here in that I have 3 different mechanics books, and each book is telling me a different setting to turn these screws to.  One book says 1-3/8 turn, and the other two says 1-1/8 turn. Having read a few of these forum topics on it, I’ve had mine set to exactly 1 turn out, on all 4 carbs. I’m also slightly confused as to which direction enriches, and which is lean.

Is this wise? Any suggestions/tips? Attached is a pic.

Online PeWe

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Re: Spark plugs are carbon fouled/ Air/fuel mixture screw.
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2019, 09:08:56 AM »
I have found 1 turn out. +/- 1/8 ( half quarter).
Honda750 shop manual say something like that. This with stock 4-4 and air box filter. I had 1/2 turn out with pods back in the 80's. 4-1 ex.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: Spark plugs are carbon fouled/ Air/fuel mixture screw.
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2019, 10:38:13 AM »
Your sooty plugs could be from having the needle clip set wrong causing your rich running.  Provided you are not trying to judge your state of tune by idling and then pulling your plugs...
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline Ratbike222

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Re: Spark plugs are carbon fouled/ Air/fuel mixture screw.
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2019, 10:41:37 AM »
Needle clip as in.. the red arrow I pointed to in the pic?

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Re: Spark plugs are carbon fouled/ Air/fuel mixture screw.
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2019, 11:18:59 AM »
Sooty plugs... Float heights must be checked. Only way to verify is with clear tube procedure, fuel level 2-4 mm under bowl gasket. I set my K6 carbs floats to 26mm, I thought. Floaded stinky idle sooty plugs, adjusted floats and bike ran OK, not much wrong needed to cause an overflow.
Verified by clear tube later and adjusted again.
 I do not want too low either since that can cause lean at higher speeds.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Ratbike222

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Re: Spark plugs are carbon fouled/ Air/fuel mixture screw.
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2019, 11:22:33 AM »
Ok, assuming my float levels are high...
how would I lower the fuel level? Just pour some out from the clear tube that’s attached?

Offline Scott S

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Re: Spark plugs are carbon fouled/ Air/fuel mixture screw.
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2019, 12:03:35 PM »
 You adjust float height by bending the tang on the float that touches the fuel needle valve.
It doesn't take much. Nearly imperceptible to the naked eye.
'71 CB500 K0
'17 Triumph Street Scrambler
'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline jgger

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Re: Spark plugs are carbon fouled/ Air/fuel mixture screw.
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2019, 01:07:02 PM »
Not to be snarky here, but it is obvious your level of expertise with carbs is slim. That being said the carbs are the last thing you want to mess with. Do ALL the other tune up checks and adjustments first. Timing, new plugs, air filter then you can asses the carbs. A clogged air filter can make soot on the plugs as well as bad timing components and no amount of carb adjustment will rectify those other issues.

You may very well need carb work, but save yourself some headaches and check the other stuff first. Again I'm not trying to be rude.

Good luck.
"The SOHC4 uses a computer located about 2-3 ft above the seat.  Those sometimes need additional programming." -stolen from  Two Tired

The difference between an ass kisser and brown noser is merely depth perception.  Stolen from RAFster122s

Offline Ratbike222

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Re: Spark plugs are carbon fouled/ Air/fuel mixture screw.
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2019, 08:48:03 PM »
Nah, you’re alright man.. you’re right though. I don’t know too much about carbs, as to I’ve avoided touching them. I’ve messed around with everything else though. Timing- check, air filter- brand new, new spark plugs- yup as well. They’re literally the only thing left... that’s why I was asking about that air screw. They’re 1 full turn out, all 4 of them. She runs fine, but I took my plugs out today and wiped off the soot. She starts up great now.. the only thing left is the carbs.. I was gonna wait til winter to clean them out and get a rebuild kit, but that may have to happen sooner than I want. Also my gas mileage isn’t great. I typically refuel after 80 miles or so. Not including reserve tank.

Online PeWe

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Re: Spark plugs are carbon fouled/ Air/fuel mixture screw.
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2019, 08:58:39 PM »
You will learn here searching posts on this forum ;) Search with Google a must.
'Sohc forum + clear tube'  will probably help to find out.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: Spark plugs are carbon fouled/ Air/fuel mixture screw.
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2019, 09:43:18 PM »
The needles are the fuel metering needles and they rise and fall depending upon your throttle position. They have a corresponding emulsion tube jet that exposes the emulsion jet holes depending upon throttle position. They serve to mix the fuel and air into a bubbly mist that is drawn past the needle and jet opening which atomizes into the throat of the carb and down the intake. It would pay you to spend some time reading the factory manual section on your carbs and looking up the carbs for your bike for the parts diagram (exploded parts diagram) on some of the dealer and aftermarket websites.  South Sound Honda has very good prices on Honda parts at good prices and their shipping is based on the weight of the total order, very reasonable. Ordering many items you will need for basic maintenance and upkeep is a good idea to spread that shipping cost across many parts.
You want to clean and reuse your brass parts in the carb rather than replace them with an aftermarket rebuild kit. The aftermarket parts are not copies of the OEM Honda and they are notorious for causing running and tuning issues. Buy genuine Keihin parts for your carbs if you have to buy new brass parts. Many times a PO has drilled the existing jets larger (emulsion tube holes or even slow or pilot jet, etc. and this can cause you to pull your hair out once things are clean and you can't get the bike to dial in the mix in close to stock factory recommended settings. (If you are at high altitude...over 5000 ft...then you may need to rejet. But, usually the stock jetting for a stock motor is the right setup when using factory airbox...best setup for a stock bike.)
Get your bike's valves adjusted properly, points adjusted properly and ensure your spark plug caps aren't well beyond their life (resistors are built into the stock caps and they go bad with time), Cut off about 1/4" of wire at cap end and rescrew the plug caps into the freshly cut wire.
If you are seeing consistent soot deposits on all plugs then you likely are OK on the plug caps.
As PeWe and Scott S said, do the clear tube check to verify your float levels are set correctly and adjust them until they are right.
Sync your carbs and then you will need a bunch of new plugs to do plug chops if this doesn't clear up your plug fouling issues. Plug chops are a technique of checking your jetting and adjustments for low, mid, and high speed operation of your motor. You can't just throw a set in and warm up the bike and run it up to mid or high speed, hit your kill switch and then pull your plugs for a reading as the warm up and low speed work will obscure how the fuel mix really is.  Look up plug chop in the forum and you should be able to find out how to perform a plug chop and you can post photos of your plugs to help confirm your reading the plugs and what to do next...

The item you circled and pointed to is not your needles, they are buried inside the carbs and the emulsion tube main jet and carb needles are paired.
Your air screw or idle screw adjusts the air bypassing and mixing in to adjust each carb beyond the base setting. As the name implies, it affects your idle mainly but it also impacts your low speed mixture and a bit into mid-speed.

I don't understand some of your logic to wait until winter to tune and clean the carbs, as long as you aren't running too lean (you aren't) you won't damage the bike but you will burn more fuel and it will not run as designed. I understand part of the logic of being able to keep riding but sometimes delaying maintenance can be a bad decision.

Download the factory repair manual and read it, it will teach you a lot if you grasp what you are reading about.  HondaMan has a book on the CB750 that is an excellent resource and can teach you a ton as well. It can be bought through Lulu, PM HondaMan about it. I believe he is slowly working on a revision for the book.  Lulu often has discounts, so take advantage of one of their discounts they run from time to time and get 10-15 or even 20% off the normal price.

Good luck and welcome to vintage bike ownership.
David
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Spark plugs are carbon fouled/ Air/fuel mixture screw.
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2019, 08:32:26 AM »
Your "quick fix" will be to replace the spark plugs.  ...Because that black soft soot is conductive and shunting away spark energy before it can jump the gap and light the air/fuel mixture.   But, it will eventually be a problem again if you don't correct the over rich fuel mixture.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Ratbike222

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Re: Spark plugs are carbon fouled/ Air/fuel mixture screw.
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2019, 10:38:35 AM »
I unscrewed the spark plugs, and wiped them off/cleaned them up. Good as new.

I did just buy a carb rebuild kit. it needs done. its literally one of the only things left I haven't done to this bike yet.

Offline Scott S

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Re: Spark plugs are carbon fouled/ Air/fuel mixture screw.
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2019, 11:37:29 AM »
 Only use the rubber parts. Keep and use the genuine Keihin brass. Be sure to pull and clean the emulsion tubes.
'71 CB500 K0
'17 Triumph Street Scrambler
'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Spark plugs are carbon fouled/ Air/fuel mixture screw.
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2019, 01:36:51 PM »
I unscrewed the spark plugs, and wiped them off/cleaned them up. Good as new.

I did just buy a carb rebuild kit. it needs done. its literally one of the only things left I haven't done to this bike yet.

No offense meant.  But, it's the center electrode porcelain insulator that needs the cleaning.  Can't effectively "wipe that off" deep in the well of the plug tip.  Powder blast will do it, though.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

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Re: Spark plugs are carbon fouled/ Air/fuel mixture screw.
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2019, 11:23:52 AM »
A plug cleaner would be useful. A box with hole for plug, connect compressed air and let something abressive clean it. Old gas stations around here had that for 40+ years ago.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline jgger

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Re: Spark plugs are carbon fouled/ Air/fuel mixture screw.
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2019, 12:32:24 PM »
I think Harbor Freight has them.
"The SOHC4 uses a computer located about 2-3 ft above the seat.  Those sometimes need additional programming." -stolen from  Two Tired

The difference between an ass kisser and brown noser is merely depth perception.  Stolen from RAFster122s

Online PeWe

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Re: Spark plugs are carbon fouled/ Air/fuel mixture screw.
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2019, 12:49:26 PM »
I have some sooty plugs not much used. I'll look for a cleaner.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967