Author Topic: CB400F Engine Rebuild  (Read 13998 times)

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Offline bamacb

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2019, 08:28:00 AM »
If you are going to vapor blast the cases why worry, it will be cleaned up then.

Offline jakec

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2019, 09:31:24 AM »
I was using ZEP from home depot (also came in 5 gal). I figured the vapor blasting would remove this stuff, but the whole point of cleaning the cases before blasting was to reduce the labor needed to have the cases blasted. Now it feels like I've made it worse than it was before. I guess I'm just wondering if anyone has had this happen, and if I should worry or just forget about it and drop them at the vapor blaster.

1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline calj737

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2019, 11:58:34 AM »
Zero like many other cleansers is high in alkalinity. Aluminum can turn a dark grey from exposure.

Vapor blasting will clean that off. Next time, avoid Zep and simply use Dawn or something comparable.
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Offline jakec

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2019, 12:53:57 PM »
Thanks for the info. So the parts turning grey and tacky is from the alkalinity? And I'm assuming the white stuff must have come from the dish detergent.
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline trigger

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2019, 10:24:56 PM »
If you have used any cleaner that contains caustic acid / soda, you have corroded the alloy and removed alloy from the bearing housings.

Offline jakec

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2019, 11:46:28 PM »
Can you explain further?

I used ZEP which is literally got from this forum so I would guess that it’s safe? Maybe the dish detergent could have that, but I also got that idea from the forum (but no specific brand). I just used what I had which was green/eco friendly.

When I rub the surfaces they come clean. Bearing surfaces included.
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline Redline it

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2019, 01:48:14 PM »
i'd take that residue off as soon as possible, it's a corrosion of some kind, it's gonna leave marks before long, at least it could. wipe it off with microfiber towels. the shells, if they're crank bearings, they should have marks similar to what's on the crank, you can match them at least to get some kind of close back to original places. if you've never rebuilt one of these motors, and you attempt to go the whole route of bore work, new pistons, bearings and chains, valve work, not to mention any carb work or adjustments, especially if you picked up this big from a different altitude, you might encounter difficulties in completing the finish project along the way. and assembling it then starting it and first few miles your motor seizes, you're going to be bummed. their almost as complicated as wrist watches. i'd suggest reassembling it with the old parts, unless something is broken, and do it very lightly. put it together clean, and then find out where your errors are. if you get it right and it runs, then you'll have some idea of what's going on with them for the cost of a gasket set and time. then try the rebuilt motor, it's gonna throw some curveballs of it's own at you.

Offline jakec

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2019, 04:31:07 PM »
I need to remove some gasket remnants on the cases and then i will get them to blaster asap. I sent them a pic asking if this would be a problem. Haven't heard back yet.
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline Redline it

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2019, 06:40:09 PM »
does the blaster clean up the gasket surface? or do you have to protect it 'after you take the gasket off?' it took me a month not working hard all day every day on it, but a month. started with credit cards, plastic scrapers, then to plexiglass, bought some of the best gasket remover possible, that didn't even touch it, paint remover, nothing, i had a 9 dollar narrow wood plane with the blade in front to hold it just above a film, but the plane never made it, finally had to use an assortment of fillet knives. no razor blades, oh and acetone, washed in soapy water with a worn out green scotch brite to get a couple stubborn spots, used map gas hoping to loosen it that way. the scotch brite worked the best, if you get close enough to 'polish the surface, you're going too far, also for stubborn spots go in the direction of the factory ridges on that surface. those ridges hold the last layer of gasket in them. oh the gasket remover was locktite chisel gasket remover that didn't touch it. and the stuff from autozone or napa don't waste your time on that, it's made now that if a baby or pet chews on it, it's more nutritious than a hazard. 

Offline jakec

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2019, 09:12:56 AM »
I am using some foaming gasket remover stuff. I left it on over night last night with a plastic sheet over it. THat's supposed to help soften it up. I also have one of those scrape tools but I'm not sure if it'll be useful. Finally I have a nice big piece of glass to sand with.
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline Kelly E

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2019, 10:09:42 AM »
I use a 3M yellow Roloc Bristle Disc. They are for cleaning aluminium gasket surfaces.
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The Rust Bros. Garage Collection
1974 Honda CB 550 K0                                            1971 MGB/GT
1975 Honda CB 400F Super Sport                          1972 MGB/GT
1977 Kawasaki KZ 1000 LTD                                   1985 GMC S15
1978 Kawasaki KL 250
1980 Suzuki GS 1100E
1982 Honda CB 900F Super Sport
1983 Honda CB 1100F
1984 Honda VF 700S Sabre
1984 Honda VF 1000F Interceptor
1990 Moto Guzzi 1000 Le Mans
1994 Kawasaki Concours ZG 1000A9
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Offline jakec

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2019, 10:14:47 AM »
I have read about those and looked into it but I saw a few people on here saying NOOOOO don't use those. Too aggressive.
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline Kelly E

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2019, 03:14:26 PM »
I have had good success with them, it requires a light touch.
Never Give Up - Never Surrender

The Rust Bros. Garage Collection
1974 Honda CB 550 K0                                            1971 MGB/GT
1975 Honda CB 400F Super Sport                          1972 MGB/GT
1977 Kawasaki KZ 1000 LTD                                   1985 GMC S15
1978 Kawasaki KL 250
1980 Suzuki GS 1100E
1982 Honda CB 900F Super Sport
1983 Honda CB 1100F
1984 Honda VF 700S Sabre
1984 Honda VF 1000F Interceptor
1990 Moto Guzzi 1000 Le Mans
1994 Kawasaki Concours ZG 1000A9
2005 Harley Davidson Fat Boy

Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2019, 11:16:56 AM »
Just use a razor blade or a staley knife blade for cleaning up gasket surfaces.
Trust me I'm a Nurse, I promise it won't hurt....much

Offline Dunk

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2019, 06:17:04 AM »
ZEP is no good for aluminum, and mediocre for anything really oily or greasy anyhow. It will corrode aluminum if you leave it in too long, and as you see diuscolors it and leaves a lot of cleanup. Better off using a petroleum based product.

For gasket surfaces I use razor blades, and if it really needs it afterward to clean/true it up I'll hit it lightly with a line sander and some fine sandpaper. Be careful on case halves though as any material removed can change bearing clearances and get the journals out of round.

Offline jakec

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2019, 09:11:10 AM »
I just dropped off my cases at the vapor blaster. I'm sure they will take a while, I didn't ask how long. Now I will source my parts for the transmission, and it if I have time I will work on other parts of the motor as well. Attached is the spreadsheet of items I think I'll need. I'm going to try and source the bearing shells, and buy them if I can, to be safe. It should only be about $100 for peace of mind. let me know if I'm missing anything in the attachment.
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline jakec

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2019, 09:53:55 AM »
Forgot primary chain (still need to check my original) and cam chain. and APE studs, which could actually be considered part of the top end I guess.
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline Little_Phil

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2019, 01:41:49 AM »
Most also recommend replacing the primary rubber dampers in the driven primary gear if you are in the bottom end. There are 8 of them.

Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2019, 01:24:51 PM »
I just dropped off my cases at the vapor blaster. I'm sure they will take a while, I didn't ask how long. Now I will source my parts for the transmission, and it if I have time I will work on other parts of the motor as well. Attached is the spreadsheet of items I think I'll need. I'm going to try and source the bearing shells, and buy them if I can, to be safe. It should only be about $100 for peace of mind. let me know if I'm missing anything in the attachment.
Your list is seriously lacking.... The essential basics are cam chain, cam chain guide and tensioner blade, horseshoe (if pivot stuck or chewed up by the chain) , gasket set, full engine seal kit. Then, if knackered or beyond spec, main crank shells, con rod shells, primary cush rubbers, gearbox bearings, pistons / rings etc. Valves if bent or beyond spec. Then there is the machine work that may be needed, re bore if liners are beyond spec, head skim, removal and insertion of valve guides, valve seat grinding, valve re face, valve de coke, clean, lappin in etc. Fin repairs, heloicoils etc, etc, etc. This little list is just for starters 😊😊😊
Trust me I'm a Nurse, I promise it won't hurt....much

Offline jakec

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2019, 02:12:39 PM »
Thank you, this list was only for the lower half (transmission). I am also not showing services on the list. It's just things to buy and where to source them. If you have any good sources for some of the items I will need, like bearing shells, I would appreciate it.
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #45 on: November 07, 2019, 03:07:54 PM »
Thank you, this list was only for the lower half (transmission). I am also not showing services on the list. It's just things to buy and where to source them. If you have any good sources for some of the items I will need, like bearing shells, I would appreciate it.
Yamiya are a good source for CB400/4 parts, Cruzinimage for pistons / ring kits and carb rebuild kits. David Silver spares is OK for some bits.
Trust me I'm a Nurse, I promise it won't hurt....much

Offline jakec

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #46 on: November 12, 2019, 08:37:28 PM »
received cases today. Way faster than I expected so I'm caught off guard and need to get my #$%* together and order some parts.

These are the cases from my donor engine.



1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline jakec

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #47 on: November 12, 2019, 09:09:50 PM »
updated shopping list.
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline jakec

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #48 on: November 12, 2019, 09:51:30 PM »
By the way, I removed gaskets from the cases by spraying them with foaming gasket remover, and then applying plastic sheet (cut up gallon zip lock bag) over the foam, and letting it sit for a week or more, applying more foam each night. Then I attacked with the scraper. What didn't come off easily I got with 320g paper on a sheet of glass. this method was pretty painless and saved  a lot of "elbow grease" time I would have spent hunched over.
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline jakec

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Re: CB400F Engine Rebuild
« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2019, 09:10:02 PM »
Kind of a side track, I need to get the sleeves, valves, and rockers out of the top end so I can get them blasted as well. Removed rockers and the surfaces look good. Only one cam journal in the vavlve cover had a score mark (no photo right now sorry).

I also got the tensioner plunger removed from the cases when I had them blasted. The set screw had been sheared off in the case. The pluger looks good to me, the set screw mark is flat and I don't believe that it would cause issues with adjustment.

Left


Right


Tensioner


1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L