Author Topic: Winter storage oil (Read 1479 times)

Alaxy Galaxy · « **on:** October 10, 2019, 05:16:10 AM »

What would you Canada/New England guys recommend to put in the sump for Winter storage? I was going to put the cheapest automobile 10w40 I could find; is that a good or a bad idea?

Keep in mind whatever oil is in there will likely be used for Spring startup/tuning/skakedown as well.

I realize how oil threads are a no-no on here, but this isn't the same thing, I promise!

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #1 on:** October 10, 2019, 05:35:13 AM »

Keep the same oil from the past season and do an oil change in spring. Nothing special, don’t add a specific oil for storage. If it’s a new motor (you mentioned shakedown) use non synthetic with something that has a lot of zinc in it. Something cheap because you’ll be changing it in about 100 miles.

Don’t use car oil.

Alaxy Galaxy · « **Reply #2 on:** October 10, 2019, 06:07:28 AM »

Thanks Dave. It's not a new motor, no. I've misused the term shakedown.

I'm really keen on putting new oil in there, because the stuff that's in it right now is pretty dirty. I'll go see what motorcycle oil I can find at Canadian Tire that's not too expensive.

jlh3rd · « **Reply #3 on:** October 10, 2019, 06:27:12 AM »

Used oil in your sump has built up corrosives as it has reduced its protective additives over the riding season. I'm a believer in that leaving that used oil in there can be bad for the bearing surfaces during winter storage as moisture builds up and contributes to this corrosive action. I think your idea of replacing it with cheapest oil is ok..i've done that...but as stated not energy conserving ( automobile) oil...
Obviously there are different opinions out there, so, it's your bike ,your money.

Deltarider · « **Reply #4 on:** October 10, 2019, 06:27:33 AM »

Quote from: DaveBarbier on October 10, 2019, 05:35:13 AM

... with something that has a lot of zinc in it....

A lot of zinc? Why? Are you saying quantity is quality? Then you don't know what zinc does and how little is actually needed.

Quote

Don’t use car oil.

Why not? I've been using it for decades - never had a clutch problem - and after consultation with Castrol I know that my high mileage 15w-40 oil contains sufficient zinc. In other words: we value comments from people that speak of own experience, we can do without what people think is 'right' to echo further on and on.
What the right time is to change the oil is up to your own judgement. If you've done nice, long rides, there's hardly need to change the oil at all before winter. If you do mainly short rides, you can expect moisture and it is better to change. But in general, it takes a looong time for oil to become bad.

Bodi · « **Reply #5 on:** October 10, 2019, 06:46:08 AM »

I either drain the oil or leave it in, it gets new oil and filter in the spring. Unless you are really due for an oil change or the engine has problems that pollute the oil I don't see what "old" oil is going to hurt.
Let's not start another oil thread. There's more BS about oil than any other topic. Use what you like. Don't add moly or other friction modifiers that can screw up the wet clutch. Not all car oil is bad for our clutches, but maybe some is.
ZDDP (zinc/phosphorous) is important for our flat tappet engines to avoid tappet and cam lobe damage, and many late spec car oils don't have enough. Modern engines do not have flat tappet valvegear (to reduce friction), don't need the ZDDP, so oil designed for them does not have much if any. But most "high efficiency" car oil is very low viscosity like 0W30 so few bike owners would use it anyway.

ekpent · « **Reply #6 on:** October 10, 2019, 08:01:03 AM »

If you put in new oil before storing it you can protect it by unhooking your gas line from the petcock if there is any hint at all of it leaking past even if its ever so slowly.

PeWe · « **Reply #7 on:** October 10, 2019, 09:15:09 AM »

+3 on fresh oil during storage.

I have read somewhere that well used oil has aggressive chemicals.
My bikes will not get new oil, they have not used the oil much.

Check the oil if it feels thick and lubes well and do not smell gasoline. Old oil feel like it is diluted with naphta.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #8 on:** October 10, 2019, 11:15:50 AM »

Having season old oil in your motor for a few months isn’t going to do anything. I’ve taken apart motors that have been sitting for over a decade outside uncovered and it all looks great in there once the oil is drained. But as it was said, your bike, do what you want.

awrawr · « **Reply #9 on:** October 10, 2019, 12:07:08 PM »

I just pulled apart a cb400f engine which has been sitting in the frame of a 1976 bike since 1988. All the internals are in excellent nick. Including barrels, pistons and rings. ( I squirted wd40 down the plug holes a couple of times s decade!) It still had the 1988 oil in it.. this is a pic of said engine after vapour blasting last week.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #10 on:** October 10, 2019, 03:43:50 PM »

If you are really that concerned with a non issue then loosen all the rocker arms, closing the valves and squirt some WD 40 etc into the cylinders seal the intake ports and put it to bed. All will be good. A non issue.

HondaMan · « **Reply #11 on:** October 10, 2019, 06:18:52 PM »

I've seen lots of engines that sat a long time (decades) with old, used oil in them.

What happens is: as the outside temperatures rise and fall, the changing air density pumps outside air into the engine where the moisture joins the oil, which absorbs it. This slowly permeates the oil in the bottom of the engine, and when it contacts the tranny gears, it rusts them. In the [normal] CB750 dry-sump, this only causes trouble insofar as the oil weeped past the oil stopper valve in the pump, raising the oil level in the cases to where it touches the lower teeth of the gears. It can hurt the oil pump's internal gears, though. If the whole oil tank slowly dribbles in past the pump's check valve, the whole tranny can get damaged, including the bearings (like in the K0 I just finished rebuilding).

In the other SOHC4 bikes with wet sumps, the tranny is sitting above the oil and less damage occurs.

Old oil has broken molecules which will more easily bond to water: fresh oil not so much. So, I have usually changed the oil in September or October (around here), which means it might have 100 miles on it before the weather gets too cold to ride until April again.

jlh3rd · « **Reply #12 on:** October 11, 2019, 04:32:50 AM »

100 miles on an oil change is in no way gonna be enough miles to deplete the additives that offer protection. Furthermore, in no way, is that enough miles to add any significant amount of contaminants from blow by or normal wear and tear that can contribute to formation of acidic properties when mixed with condensation. I'd have no issue with leaving that in my bike, or some miles after that.
But a whole season of riding is another issue and that's what the original poster seemed to be asking about......so he gets opinions.
He can google the question, if he wants. He'll see what the vast majority of experts have to say about it.
Personally, i've never torn multiple engines down. I rely on experts such as motortrend,cycle world, hot rod magazine, popular mechanics ( when they used to have that section), saturday mechanic, etc., etc. that i have read and listened to for decades who all say change it out.....so i listen to them, and pass it on when asked. Everyone of them say acidic contaminants form with used oil that sits over winter without use and can be detrimental to bearings and other surfaces.
His bike, his choice.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #13 on:** October 11, 2019, 05:30:30 AM »

Making a mountain out of a mole hill. Over winter is COMPLETELY FINE. Many people live in hot climates where there IS NO WINTER STORAGE... they just keep riding. That even further builds up “acidic properties” and their motors are JUST FINE.

Brim the tank, put fuel stabilizer in, clean and oil parts and put a sheet over it.

I’m not against doing an oil change at the end of the season (I like doing it at the beginning of the season) and then using that same oil for the next riding season. I am against adding oil only for winter storage, as the OP was saying, and then replacing that again for spring.

1976cb750f836 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 11, 2019, 06:54:50 AM »

I have 2 street bikes an 4 off road bikes, ATVs. All stored in basement or shop. They never see temps below freezing, and rarely below 50. My street bikes get ridden bout 1K ea year, sometimes less. The off road stuff gets ridden every day mostly. (Live on farm, have kids, and grandkids). I change the off road oil every spring, the cb and gs , every other year (I know I'll hear about this). I use rotella 15-40 in everything. I add at least 2 oz of sea foam to the fuel in all. I don't drain the carbs. I do run it in. Never a startup problem in spring (unless it's a dead battery)
And I would think, any new cheep $-store oil would be fine for storage, it has zero contaminates . Then in spring, start it up, Ride 5-10 miles, drain and add the good stuff.

PeWe · « **Reply #15 on:** October 11, 2019, 10:09:26 AM »

Both my bikes are stored in a warm and dry garage where temperature always are over 20*C, mostly 22-24*C.
I'll start my bikes once a month and let them idle for 5 minutes to rinse the carbs and hopefully avoid eventual dirt build-up in the carb pilot system. Charge batteries during 2-3 days/ month too.

I had my K6 stored between 1990 and 2010 in a not heated barn when I opened the engine. No problems with the old oil that had not many km before storage. Biggest problem was pitted valve seats and one combustion chamber in head that had heavy oxidation.
No rust inside except one valve where head was oxidized.

Don R · « **Reply #16 on:** October 13, 2019, 02:05:02 PM »

Just keep the mice out of the exhaust and intake. L0L! I have a 6,000 mile cylinder that had 6 oil changes, it was left in a barn with the carbs off. mice lived in the ports. A 6 ton jack won't move the pistons, instead of the piston moving I bent my home made hydraulic press's frame.
And yes I changed the subject.

ofreen · « **Reply #17 on:** October 14, 2019, 07:26:45 PM »

Quote from: Alaxy Galaxy on October 10, 2019, 05:16:10 AM

What would you Canada/New England guys recommend to put in the sump for Winter storage? I was going to put the cheapest automobile 10w40 I could find; is that a good or a bad idea?
Keep in mind whatever oil is in there will likely be used for Spring startup/tuning/skakedown ...

I won't try to talk you out of wasting time, money or oil. But if the bike is due for an oil change, go ahead and change it using your regular oil. Then just ride the bike when you take it out mothballs in the spring with the same oil until it is due for a change again. After over 50 years of riding and maintaining motorcycles, I can attest this hurts nothing. That includes my 750F that is approaching 164,000 original miles. That is my experience, but in the end you have to do whatever you are comfortable with.

Kelly E · « **Reply #18 on:** October 15, 2019, 08:54:09 AM »

One thing I know is bikes that sit for years with clean oil don't have stuck clutch plates. Most of the bikes I have done that sat with dirty oil had stuck clutches. The 81' GS1100 I am doing now sat since 06' with clean oil and the clutch is free. My 84' Sabre sat for 6 years with dirty oil and the clutch was stuck. I did a 75' 400 Four that sat for 21 years (16 under a deck and 5 indoors) with clean oil and the clutch was free.

1976cb750f836 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 16, 2019, 05:57:53 AM »

Agree on the clutch thing. We're only talking about 20$ worth of fresh oil, dump it in!

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Author Topic: Winter storage oil (Read 1479 times)