Topic: Should I buy this bike / How much is it worth?

[jakec]

This nice 400 came up in my area. It looks to be really clean with just a few small areas of rust. There are also a few incorrect parts. The seller is really motivated and seems to know almost nothing about the bike. He can't really answer detailed questions because he doesn't know the parts of the bike I guess. They were originally asking $4900 and I just started talking to them yesterday when they lowered asking to $3900. I am hoping to get it for closer to $3000.

First thing I noticed is the headlight bracket that's wrong. Not sure why it's like that when they still have the blinkers, which is the same part that holds the headlight.



Overall looking pretty clean. Nice tank and seat, nice crash bars, it's a '76 which I want. No gas leak on the sprocket cover!



Tank and seat are great but the seat doesn't say Honda so i'm guessing it's an old recover. Looks good though.



This has to be the worst part, mileage is a little high and the gauges are a little roughed up.



The best part - probably the nicest pipes I have ever seen.



Engine looks dry. I do wonder if I start riding this bike daily/weekly, at the 23k mileage if I'm going to need a top end rebuild soon? My buddie's 400 that he got at 20k miles had just had a rebuild.



Little areas of rust on items that were not plated like the brake pipe and bleeder screw. Hopefully I could get these out and replace them without breaking them.

[jakec]

The guy wants me to come tonight (he's busy the rest of the week until Monday). What do you think guys. Where my 400 guys at??

[carnivorous chicken]

I don't think 23k miles is all that high, and doesn't necesitate a top end on its own -- if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Are you in Seattle? Location makes a difference and Seattle has higher prices for bikes that are in nice shape and not too rusty.
Still, $5k is way too much, I think $4k is way too much too. $3k is too much for me, but might be what the Seattle market bears.

I would still definitely do a pretty thorough check up. Get it running and warmed up, run it though the gears, then look for oil seepage. Make sure all the electrics are working as they are supposed to. Check little stuff like fork seals and the chain. Listen to the engine. Check the inside of the gas tank. Does it have a tool kit and manual? How does the cam chain sound? Is the adjuster stuck? Any smoke?

And the fact that he doesn't know much about it is a bit of a red flag. Can't tell you anything about how it was maintained? When servicing was done? Etc.? First question I'd ask if he says no is how he came upon the bike.

For reference, someone here posted a link to a 400F just outside of Sacto for $1500. I made a call on it and considered it, but passed. It wasn't in as nice a shape as this cosmetically and it was a '77, but for less than $3k it could've been made pretty nice.

[jakec]

Thanks, most of what is motivating me on this bike I think is the cosmetic condition of a lot of the hard to replace / access parts - even the frame paint looks really nice. I once drove 3 hours to look at a bike but I had to pass because the frame paint was all scratched up, and there's no way to fix that without stripping the whole bike. This one looks good cosmetically.

$3,000 is definitely what Seattle market will bear. I think if he was asking $3,000 I'd have competition. Right now I'm pretty sure I'm the only one biting at $3,900. if I buy this I will have to sell my 550 and I think I can get $2,500 for that pretty easy.

The reason I made the comment about a top end rebuild is because I see just a little tint below the head gasket - this is on a bike he's apparently never riding. So I'm thinking if I start riding this thing every day, who knows. My 350 that I ride every single day to work, it's always having something break and I take good care of it. Just a thought really.

I have yet to get a photo under the seat. I wouldn't walk away over a toolkit, but I am curious about how it looks under there because you can tell when it's really dusty or dirty under there, the bike is probably dirty in all the hidden spots.

[mattsz]

The best part - probably the nicest pipes I have ever seen.

Those pipes are nice!  But if that's the best part - are they too nice?  Are they OEM double-walled, or aftermarket singles?

[jakec]

I did suspect they may be replaced with aftermarket. I didn't realize the new ones (DSS) weren't also double walled? They do have a little yellowing at the head. I once had a CL175 with some yellowing.

[cooldrum]

If you're seeing the bike tonight, bring a flashlight to thoroughly check the areas mentioned in previous responses.  When was the last oil change? Any service records? or was he the tech? Warm it well and make sure it can idle and then listen to the motor.  Even pull a plug if necessary to give you an idea of the jetting. In the end it's up to you to make a decision.  Has the bike been stored inside? Previous owners?  I live in Portland and my bikes are in the garage to limit rust and corrosion.  You can always make an offer and see where it goes.  I saw the post so he needs the $ due to a new baby. Good luck!

[jakec]

I got a photo under the seat and it looks really clean under there. No dust no rust. It even has the lid over the little box.

[Stev-o]

$5k is way too much, I think $4k is way too much too. $3k is too much for me...

+1.   Personally, I'd say thats a $2500 bike, the seller is dreaming...

[jakec]

I would love to get it for that but 400s don't come up that often and even at it's asking price it's the best price/condition combo I have seen locally, ever. I have seen plenty asking $3000 in worse shape.

[Kelly E]

I would love to get it for that but 400s don't come up that often and even at it's asking price it's the best price/condition combo I have seen locally, ever. I have seen plenty asking $3000 in worse shape.

Have to agree with Jake on this one. I could get $4k easy for the 400 Four I did, it has been offered more than once. It is a good market for old Honda's around here. I got $3750 for a 73' Cb500 K2 with 38k miles on it. It was a preservation. The only thing I painted was the brake caliper. It sat for 10 years so it was a lot of derusting, cleaning and rebuilding. Sold it to the first caller for the asking price.

[vik351]

If ya like what ya see, are happy with what ya see, just buy it, all the experts always get stuff cheaper and then you miss out just cos of a few bob...!!!(dimes...)

Coulda ,shoulda , now I'm spewin cos I didnt, lifes too short mate...!!!

Bought mine sight unseen, happy as a pig in siht ;-)

vik...

[nvr2old]

75 and 76 400F's are increasing in value all the time.  23k miles is nothing if it's been maintained.  Stock pipe, nice cosmetics alone are a big plus.

[Scott S]

 Around here, the small fours bring big money. Except for completely clapped out 350/4's. Those seem to pop up regularly.
 But anything that's nice and running easily brings big bucks, both the 350 and the 400. You wouldn't have any issue selling that for $3,000 ++ in my area. Maybe even $4K+.

[ekpent]

Curious as to how long the seller has owned it.Has he had it for a long time or is it a flip.  Most of the bikes I have had regrets about were the ones I didn't buy----

[Bankerdanny]

Curious as to how long the seller has owned it.Has he had it for a long time or is it a flip.  Most of the bikes I have had regrets about were the ones I didn't buy----

Fortunately for you not buying bikes isn't a mistake you seem to make very often. LOL

[Alaxy Galaxy]

If you think of a bike as a sum of it's eBay parts, then this having all the nice bits still on there is a big plus.

Every part on this bike is 100$, it seems. Tool tray? 100$. Chain guard? 100$. Good sidecover? 100$. I wouldn't be worried about swapping out the few rusty bits (including the brake pipe - I may have a much better spare). These bikes are really easy to tear apart and work on.

The headlight ears are a bit of a mystery, and if the original bracket is broken, it's not easy to come by. Oh, and on eBay, it'll be 100$...

[Alaxy Galaxy]

As a sidenote: that tank, if it's original paint and as good as it looks in the pictures, is worth quite a lot in itself...

[jakec]

Every part on this bike is 100$, it seems.

Alaxy, that's kinda what I was thinking. I'm looking at the bike going chaching.. chaching... looking at all these really nice parts. really, if the odometer read something below 10k I'd be over there already (and it would match the condition of the parts better). It may be true that the tank and sidecovers are reproductions... I think the pipes may be given their condition.

Curious as to how long the seller has owned it.Has he had it for a long time or is it a flip.

Like I said above, the seller can really offer no help in answering questions, unless he's playing dumb which I doubt. He keeps dropping the price, so I need to get over there. Debating heading over tonight but it'll be dark and raining.

[CB400JAY]

I'd look over this bike real carefully.  Why did someone change out the headlight shell and bracket?  Possibly because of crash damage?  Really hard to get a good read from pictures but it looks like this bike has had some cosmetic work done at some time.  That being said the 400F is a great collectable machine. 

[jakec]

Jay, I agree that it is a puzzle. There are somethings I have noticed. Like the left side cover screws have been updated to allen keys, whereas the right side are the originals. The gauges are all bashed up.. but then other parts of the bike (parts that cannot be found new/reproduced) are in great condition! Like the fork boots, which look polished almost. And then there are the rusted bits, if someone did a rolling restoration on this bike, why are those parts still there?

I also zoomed way in on the headlight photo and you can still see the "hoop" that connects the top and bottom of the headlight/blinker bracket. I highlighted it.The only explanation I can think of if the bracket isn't broken is that the owner chose the chrome brackets and headlight out of preference? Or maybe cracked headlight bucket.

The thing I am mainly worried about is how it runs, considering the cosmetic condition looks so good. I want to start it up and listen. I don't mind doing a full tune up, but I don't want to hear a noisy cam chain.

[Bodi]

Possibly someone wanted a better headlight, the small original one has few if any H4 replacements now - more were available in the 70's but the last one I know of disappeared as the factory was destroyed (or inside the Fukushima exclusion zone) by the Japan tsunami a few years ago. That looks like a 7" headlight, many options available for them.
The rest of the bike looks good, maybe the pipes look too good though? Could be repops.
You may be able to go back to the original headlight bucket, depends on whether the mounting arms were cut off to fit that new one. The big light looks out of place to me.
Engine should be OK considering the cosmetics, it does not look like it was beaten up much.
Please, don't part it out.

[jakec]

I won't be parting it out. The worst thing I would do is put a full airtech fairing and some vintage clip ons on it

[Scott S]

 Use the things you've seen and that have been pointed out as negotiation points.
 They're cool bikes and I only see them going up in value.

[CB400JAY]

I'd be surprised if a 400F did not have a noisy cam chain.  Most of them were not adjusted properly, if at all. There is lots of room for improvement in the cam chain tensioner area if you don't mind splitting the cases.