Topic: The "Tombstone" shed find and its older sister "Redstone".

[web]

This bike was likely "modified" a bit in the 1980s or maybe early 1990s, then ended up sitting in someone's garage for 10-15 years, then got passed on to that guy's neighbor. This guy had the good sense to at last empty and clean the fuel tank before storing it another 5 years, deciding he wasn't going to do anything with it and then put it up for sale. I made an offer and picked it up last weekend.

Sellers pic:

So there are a few things wrong here. This doesn't look like a 550K3 does it? Even if you disregard the "500" on the seat.



But this kinda does.

When I picked it up, the frame number did match the 550K3 range. But I suspected from browsing dozens of pictures... No 550 has this screw in the gearbox cover:


Sure enough, engine number is a CB500 K2!

[web]

So this is from picking it up.
By this time I had figured out it really was a 550K3 with 500K2 motor and a bunch of other random parts thrown in.

So far I have identified..

500:
- the headlight brackets with blinkers on headlight height
- engine
- tank shape

550 K:
- warning light cluster
- frame
550 F:
- side covers

Unidentified yet are the ribbed clutch/alt covers. Haven't seen those on anything else...

[web]

Yes people, this one was modded in the days where you were not a real man without a tombstone on your tank. I can only imagine the hairstyle that went with this.



I kinda like these funky period handlebars though.

Not sure yet which direction to take this project. There's obviously not much original to preserve, besides perhaps the (rare here) rust free spoke wheels.

Leaning towards a mild successive brat style build, but let's get it running first.

It turns over easily on the somewhat wobbly kickstarter, so the odds seem ok.

[seanbarney41]

hey man, I will give ya $80 for those bars.  If you are not gonna use that gas tank paint, you should sell it, I would consider giving you an offer for it.  That is unique art. I know it's cheesy subject matter but well done custom paint none the less. That seat is worth decent money as well.

[carnivorous chicken]

Cool find, interesting mish mash of stuff. I'd keep the tank too.

One thing -- have a good luck at the forks and triple tree. Judging from the photo that shows the backside of the front fender, it looks like it's been run into something and the fender smashed against the headers.

[web]

Thanks for the advice on the fender, hadn't looked at it that way. I just figured it was one of many things bent and dented in careless storage. Taillight is also pushed into the rear fender, rear blinkers are at different heights, stuff like that. No asphalt rash anywhere though, and no rust either which is pretty special for this area.

[web]

Worst case one could suspect it was in a substantial crash and patched up with predominantly 500 parts. Or the fender itself is from a damaged bike. Is there a difference between 500 and 550 forks?

The bars stay for now though, sorry As does the seat.

I'd swap the (no rust) tank for a similarly good shape tank without such artwork though, to anyone willing to pay shipping both ways. Even better if I could get a 550 tank out of that deal.

I really don't care for the artwork and do need a tank, so sanding and painting isn't far off. Considering plastidipping it for now, but the "sacred" lettering is laid on thick so it would poke thru...

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

hey man, I will give ya $80 for those bars.  If you are not gonna use that gas tank paint, you should sell it, I would consider giving you an offer for it.  That is unique art. I know it's cheesy subject matter but well done custom paint none the less. That seat is worth decent money as well.

That tank is perfectly appropriate for today (10/31)!!

[jakec]

I have a stock set of 550 tank and side covers I will trade you, if you have side covers to match the spooky tank.

[Scott S]

 Why can't I see any pictures?

[web]

Scott, I dunno... Everyone else seems to see them just fine.

Jake, I do have side covers, but they don't have the Halloween theme They're just plain black. I'll have a closer look what type and condition they are.

[web]

Side covers are
83600-390
83700-390
One of them seems dated sometime 1976.

In crappy flat black, no artwork there.
So that's a CB550F part if the internet is not mistaken.

[jakec]

Aw I wish the sidecovers were painted. the design on the top of the tank is kinda whack but the sides are cool. i would love to find a set of 70s painted custom tank & sidecovers for mine.

[Menno]

The ribbed alt cover is an aftermarket. There were companies specialised in making that kind of stuff.
Some like it and pay good moneuy for it others dislike it and throw it away.

The left contol unit on your handlebar is not original cb 500 or 550.

The tank... it is nice to hear some people like it. But most people thingk it is simply ugly and have it repainted in original colours.
It is quite often I get those amateur airbrush painted tanks - some better some worse than this - and I never regret it having the tank chemically cleaned back to bear metall.

[web]

Now that you mention it... Have to say that control looks more '80s than '70s. Thanks.

[web]

Okay, while I know the original Honda books are available, these also just arrived.



Ready to acquire some greasy fingers!

Slight bummer : I had hoped the CB Four book would cover the 400-550 range, but it really covers the 400 and 550 only, not the 500.

The frame might be a 550K3, but the engine is a 500K2. Oh well. All the chassis bits and much of the engine stuff will still be OK I guess, and for the rest there's always the Honda books.

[web]

I'm gathering inspiration on where to take this build. I don't want to go overboard or take on too much, since this is my first bike build. Did cars before, but not bikes.

So I'm just looking, and looking, and looking. Developing a taste, but already developing a fed-upness with the cafe racer look, mostly with shoddy attempts at it.

This is a good thing - if I can stare at something for a month and still not be fed up with it, THEN it's time to go for it, not before. So let me get fed up with a lot of design elements, and I'll be left with the ones I really want.

Locally popular design elements that I found pretty initially, but got fed up with really quickly:
- Always the same off-the-shelf poo-brown seat, usually mounted in a quite ill-fitting way.
- Always the same hacked-up U-shaped tail.
- The LED strip taillight in that frame hoop.
- Turd grips
- Big square tail boxes

In gathering inspiration I happened upon this one.
https://link.marktplaats.nl/m1485560000
In case the original advert disappears, mirrored it with all pics here

This one has a few eye openers for me.
1) Special paint on the tank is not needed. A clean tank in a plain and beautiful period color can be really pretty. Srsly considering a blue-gray shade myself now.
2) You don't need to black out everything. A few tasteful splashes of black are enough. You can leave a shiny wheel shiny, add a fat tire and you're good. Even the fork doesn't need to be blacked out. This one doesn't even have the black gaiters and still doesn't look out of place in the theme.

Things I like about it:
- Finally a good pic of flipped M-style handlebars. Lookin' good! Definitely keeping these now.
- Simple and tasteful from the steps forward.
- Kickstart only. Nice and functional retro touch. Needs a lot less battery that way. I wish more & newer bikes came with kickstarters. I will have to try and see the practicality of kickstart-only operation. It doesn't help that my kickstart lever is a bit loose on the splines, so I may want to keep the electrics after all. But for retro simplicity I'd love kick-only.
- Black seat. It may be again the same Chinese seat as everyone else, but at least it's black. Some middle ground between the OE Honda mattress and this might be nice too.
- Single. small headlamp. I might even want it yellow if it suits the rest of the color scheme. On this bike it wouldn't, probably.
- Fat tires, though I'd choose them one size smaller than these, on a 360 with the super short wheelbase.

Things I don't like so much:
- Raised handlebar mounts. Probably needed because of the "poke-thru" style front end lowering job. And/or maybe the flipped handlebars got too low. But raised mounts really don't suit a cafe theme IMO. I would have changed to clip-ons instead.
- the "tail tidy" and open triangle - minimalism taken a little too far. Am getting bored with this "skeleton look" a bit. I want to see what's doable on an uncut frame with a custom seat, and a slim airbox.
- the rear suspension on maximum preload, probably done to make the slightly too fat tires clear the seat hoop.

Ok, this is just dreaming and learning for now. Have to start work on getting it running first.

[Menno]

To be quite honest; the bike in the advert doesn't have enough clearing between tire and hoop.
I would have some doubts riding that. Imagine that quy sells his bike and the new owner takes a first tour with his girlfriend as passenger...
One big pothole in the road at 60 m/ph...

If you are building a bike to your own taste, build it like you never going to sell it.
Build it the way you like it.
People will alway recognise passion...
But keep an eye on safety.

[web]

No worries, I'm quite particular about making things absolutely foolproof, hence spotting the tire size problem too.

Even if I'd be the only one riding it. You wouldn't believe the dangerous crap I've seen advertised. The worst so far was a monoshock conversion that consisted of a piece of box section welded upright onto the center of the swing arm, perpendicular to the shock itself. No other bracing or supports. This was sold as a nearly finished build. *headdesk*.

Back to build styles though. Another beauty, this one built by a pro at Rawhide:



I'm like... SOLD! Oh HOW much? Ok never mind... *sad*

Basically this guy cleaned up and slimmed down everything above engine level. Have to say those proportions work really well!

Definitely like the '60s headlamp shell with single gauge. Not sure I want painted fork ears though, but let's see if leaving them off is even al an option (ie what condition the legs are underneath)

[Menno]

I think a cb 125 t tank from 1974 is too small for a Honda cb 750 bike.
Tank is less than half the size in width compared to the original tank.

That is why the seat is so long.
If you would ride it your knees would hit the carburettors in stead of the tank.

[web]

I have an opportunity to buy a mostly stock '74 CB500 K1 that has a different mix/match... A 550 crankcase.

I was hoping it had a full 550 engine but alas... The cylinder block says 498cc even if the crankcase is definitely 550.

Now in doubt whether it's worth it. With the parts I have I could then build a nice original CB500 K1/K2 and a 500/550 hybrid in a 550k3 frame.

[web]

... bought it anyway.



So now I have two project bikes. This red '74 will be named "Redstone" after buying it in a Dutch town called "Steenwijk", helpfully continuing the stone theme.

But wait ! There's an empty slot on that trailer.



... problem solved.

But wtf?

That - as you probably know - is the very last iteration of the SOHC/4, with 4-in-4 pipes. This particular example was dumped as a trade-in at a giant new-and-shiny Harley dealership, who obviously rushed to get rid of it. It has seized brakes, rusty tank (inside and out), tatty scratched-up fairing, bald front tire, rust in the front fender and probably a whole lot more issues. Obviously does not run, but the engine is not seized so it seems salvageable. I low-balled the Harley shop while I had the CB on the trailer already - and they took the bait. I am really not sure whether I will do a hybrid as described 11 years ago in this excellent writeup by paulages, but for the price I thought I'd snap it up and decide later. Dropped it straight off at storage so we won't see it again until I get to that stage of the project(s). If there's anything at all I can reuse off it, it was worth it.

For those that go "HUH?" at all those hybrids, I'll just mention that the casing-to-cylinder gasket and O-rings are the same on all 500 through 650 SOHCs.
Bores x strokes:

500 (498cc) -> 56.0 x 50.6 mm (kick+electric)
550 (544cc) -> 58.5 x 50.6 mm (kick+electric)
650 (626cc) -> 59.8 x 55.8 mm (electric only)

The twincams like in the '83 and up 650SC Nighthawk are different again, at 60x58mm and 60x50.6mm (572cc) for the 550SC. Both come with 6-speeds as opposed to the 5-speed under the SOHCs.

[web]

We're only on page one and it's time for a recap already - for those including myself who need it to make sense of these mix-and-match bikes.

At first there was...

The tombstone:



- Named after its tank.
- CB550 K3 frame, registration and instruments,
- Engine & transmission complete CB500K2. As are the front winkers.
- CB550F side covers
- Unidentified 4-in-1 pipe that looks like things deployed by NASA.



No lift-off yet, because it's not running. Electrically dead, seized brakes, a true shed find only without the rust. Has been sitting for at least 15 years, possibly 20. Currently working on the brakes.

And now we have:

Redstone:

- CB500F K1 1974, came with the original registration papers from 1974. By now invalid of course, but cool for a collector.
- Casing and transmission 550 K2, with partially "deleted" number to make that fact less obvious to those who don't spot the 'wrong' casings a mile away.
- Cylinder block and top end fully 'correct' 500cc. So this is a hybrid.

This is a fully functional bike with ducktape seat, a lot of nice original bits and next to no rust either. Unfortunately the rear rim has a few specks of semi-serious rust and the exhaust is of the obnoxiously loud type, but other than that I see no major issues.



It was sold as original paint, but for that the color is wrong- I don't think this color was ever originally sold, not even in Europe. It does look like it might be '70s paint.
It is a popular color for these though, and for a good reason. I like!

[web]

Plans are to first fix the bigger issues on each bike, make sure both motors are OK and then swap out the motors to make each bike a little more 'correct'. Redstone will be returned to stock 500/500/500 configuration, whereas Tombstone will be more of a "resto-mod" style with whatever interesting bits I can throw at it, including maybe possibly who-knows those 650 cylinders, head and crankshaft.

So on to stage 0 of Redstone :



A fuel leak, probably leaving these deposits on the outside of the two left-hand float chambers (possibly mingling with some oil too)
It looked to be the tap (petcock) but it stops leaking when parked, so that's a little strange. A tap that leaks at OFF would leak until the tank's dry. I'll probably dig deeper on the weekend.
It does leak while being shaken around on a trailer with the tap closed. And then stops leaking when parked, tap still untouched.

Stage 0 of Tombstone:

Digging into the front brake. After trying to bleed it I have a seized caliper and an outwardly leaky master, so I guess it's a case of "replace/rebuild everything".
Narrowed down the electrical problems to the use of flaky spade connectors on the key switch, rather than the proper connector. Whoever botched this up may have used older CB500 wiring and extended it to meet the CB550 K3 (steering-mounted) ignition key.

[web]

Last night some more progress on the Tombstone brakes. The master, against all odds, seems to hold pressure after some more flushing and has stopped leaking. Not sure if I trust it enough to actually want to ride it this way, but for now it is nice that it requires no immediate attention.
I also managed to undo the brake line from the caliper, taking it out for rebuild.

No pics of that so I'll just throw in a random Redstone pic



Check out that winged mudflap I find it kinda cool actually. Back in the day most people tossed it, so these in good shape seem fairly rare. Even CMS doesn't have it.

Oh, and I'm sure you're not surprised to hear that that tailpipe is obnoxious as hell... definitely getting rid of that - I'd get pulled over in a new york minute.