Topic: One more leather question: abrasion resistance and leather types

[GroovieGhoulie]

I'm in contact with a place that builds custom leather jackets.  I showed them what I want and they can do it even cheaper than Vanson!  I think that's too cool.  I give them all my measurements and they totally custom build a jacket for me and it's cheaper than an off-the-rack jacket.  I'm stoked.  One cool part is that patterns or insignias on the jacket are not merely cut and sewn on over the jacket, but cut and inlaid while it's being made, so it's smooth and gives a "seamless" appearance.  What blows my mind is that the level of workmanship for that sort of thing must be VERY intense compared to just sewing some pieces over an existing jacket.

Anyway, the guy said they use a nice thick cowhide for the black parts of the jacket, but for the color parts, they use lambskin leather.  How strong is lambskin compared to cowhide for abrasion resistance?  God forbid I take a dive and slide on the road, would the lamb parts wear through or come apart faster than the cow parts?  The jacket would be thrashed one way or another, but how much protection does lambskin give?

[tsflstb]

They make condoms from that stuff, so you should be well protected.

It's probably easier to work with since they use it for logo designs, so it might not be quite as rugged.  Most baseball batting gloves are thin goat skin.  They don't hold up too well from my experience.  Lambs and goats are related right?  I wouldn't put it on your elbows or shoulders (where you expect to take a hit). 

I've got some motorcycle gloves with the palms made of Kangaroo.  It's a lot thinner than the cowhide to give you more feel, but it's supposed to be tough as hell in a crash.  Luckily I haven't found out yet. 

[medic09]

They make condoms from that stuff, so you should be well protected.

It's probably easier to work with since they use it for logo designs, so it might not be quite as rugged.  Most baseball batting gloves are thin goat skin.  They don't hold up too well from my experience.  Lambs and goats are related right?  I wouldn't put it on your elbows or shoulders (where you expect to take a hit). 

I've got some motorcycle gloves with the palms made of Kangaroo.  It's a lot thinner than the cowhide to give you more feel, but it's supposed to be tough as hell in a crash.  Luckily I haven't found out yet. 

We can tell you're no farmer!  A lamb is a young sheep (or goat).  The skin is thinner, more supple, easier to dye, but has less it can lose to abrasion.  Easier to work with.  Goatskin can be from an adult.  Still thinner and more supple than cowhide, but tougher than immature skins.  My G-1 flight jacket is made from goatskin.  Soft and pliable from the first wear.  Cowhide (like my new bike jacket) is thicker, far more abrasion resistant, but requires a lot of breaking in.  Sometimes the softer skins are used for inlays because they are more workable, and most of the rider's abrasion protection (even some cushioning from the thickness) will come from the cowhide.

[Uncle Ernie]

Tensil strength = abrasion resistance.  Cowhide is basic. Deer hide is a little thinner and more supple, but has more tensil strength.
Elkskin is one of the best, but I haven't seen it in jackets.  I have some elkskin gloves for summer riding that I also use clearing shrubs and thorns.  I don't even notice the thorns.  Kangaroo is supposed to be really good, but I don't have experience with it.
Stick with goat skin for fashion wear only.  Sorry.

[tsflstb]

So a lamb, goat, and sheep are the same thing?  How do I live this long and not know that?  Must have been sick that day of kindergarten.  What does mutton come from?  And what the hell is a ewe?

[Uncle Ernie]

You don't get those questions answered until 9th grade.
Unless you go to Catholic school.  Then you'll never know.

[medic09]

So a lamb, goat, and sheep are the same thing?  How do I live this long and not know that?  Must have been sick that day of kindergarten.  What does mutton come from?  And what the hell is a ewe?

Okay, let's try this one more time, shall we?  A lamb is a young 'un.  Usually folks use it to mean a sheep, but it could be a goat.  Sheep and goats are different critters.  Mutton is sheep meat.  A ewe is a female sheep.

Why am I answering this?  Don't any of our Aussies raise sheep?  Don't all Aussies raise sheep?  They do on the TV shows about sheep dogs...   

[tsflstb]

Man I'm really confused now.  I think we need to gather a few species and do some testing in the SOHC4 labs...

How about one of the Aussies rounds up some sheep, lambs, goats, etc.  We'll also need a Kangaroo.  Be careful with the roo's wearing boxing gloves, they will punch you.

Oh yeah...sorry G.G.  I think your answer is to stick with as much cowhide as possible.  It's more simple anyway: it's either a cow, bull, or steer right?

[Uncle Ernie]

"Why am I answering this?  Don't any of our Aussies raise sheep? "

mmmm.... yeeaaah....

                                                                     -- never mind.

[medic09]

"Why am I answering this?  Don't any of our Aussies raise sheep? "

mmmm.... yeeaaah....

                                                                     -- never mind.

 

[Jugghead]

OMG
Ok here's the deal:

SHEEP       GOAT                  HUMAN
lamb          kid                       child
ram           buck (aka billy)      male
ewe           doe (aka nanny)    female

Holy crap.  while closely related goats are not sheep.  goats are not lambs. rams are sheep, billy is a goat.
really simple stuff, here guys.
 

Lambs and goats are related right? 

YES! they are even related to cows! all bovine species  (check wikipedia: goat)

Okay, let's try this one more time, shall we?  A lamb is a young 'un.  Usually folks use it to mean a sheep, but it could be a goat.  Sheep and goats are different critters.  Mutton is sheep meat.  A ewe is a female sheep.

Thank GOD someone else has some grey matter between their ears!
Yeesh.  since when is a lamb a goat is a mutton is a ewe? WHat?  i am SOOOOO confused

[Uncle Ernie]

Now you're making fun of my hair ? !

[Einyodeler]

Baaa  ram   ewe
Baaa  ram  ewe 

For sliding down the tarmac, the thicker the leather , the more time you have before the road reaches your skin.
And whatever you do , don`t buy any of this crap patchwork leather you see all over e-bay. Not only is it goat skin, it also is sewn together from scrap pieces where if you did go down the seams would never hold up and all of a sudden your "protection" is in 100 pieces. 

[CrisPDuk]

Kangaroo leather is what the one piece suits of most top level professional bike racers are made of, I;ve nver seen a riped one of them, so I would imagine it's pretty tough


However, judging by the amount of roadkill adorning most Aussie highways, it doesn't seem to be that good at protecting it's original manufacturers

[medic09]

The only kangaroo leather I own is a pair of cowboy boots.  Much thinner and more supple than cowhide, but darn near indestructible!

[Rocking-M]

Ok we need a scientific test. Since we have no kangaroo's here in the states, at least not in my
part the Aussie's will have to help.

We'll need,
one old cow,
one old goat,
one old roo,
and one young lamb,

four ropes,

four horses,

one good highway.

Method,

rope your catch,
drag till leaks,

[Uncle Ernie]

Speaking for the old goats, a lot of us already leak without the abuse.  PUNK KID !

[nickjtc]

Baaa  ram   ewe
Baaa  ram  ewe 
For sliding down the tarmac, the thicker the leather , the more time you have before the road reaches your skin. And whatever you do , don`t buy any of this crap patchwork leather you see all over e-bay. Not only is it goat skin, it also is sewn together from scrap pieces where if you did go down the seams would never hold up and all of a sudden your "protection" is in 100 pieces. 

Quite possibly the funniest post I've read in a long time....even better than some of the so-called humour in the humour section!! (And I'm as guilty as anyone else.)

Nice reference to 'Babe'. One of my favourite films.

But back to matters at hand. I concur that it doesn't matter what the hide is, if the garment is not built correctly it will not do its job. The fewer the panels the less the stitching and therefore the less chance that things will burst apart under the stresses of impact and sliding.

Also, don't forget that the leather will only protect against the friction of the slide; some kind of 'armour' is advisable at shoulders, hips, elbows, back, knees etc to protect against the initial impact when you hit the ground, tree, car, armco or whatever.

And don't forget the full coverage helmet.

GHOF, out.

[Rocking-M]

Dogoneit Uncle Ernie, no offense intended to Old Goats,
I thought you and I were the same age anyway,
at least you got hair, I see it in your picture

[tsp37]

Actually, kangaroos are big mice, or mice are tiny kangaroos - I get confused.  I learned that watching educational programming in my pre-K classes.  And coyote skin has to be the toughest and most supple.