Topic: 18" race tires

[bwaller]

Here in Canada we are having difficulty with supply of 18" Avon & Heidenau race tires. It seems impossible to get a truthful answer as to the reason for supply issues.

I have proposed a rule change within the VRRA for our P1 & 2 classes to allow 18" radial race tires. We will have our answer in a month whether or not this passes. Certainly Continental is one brand. I have also read that Metzeler offers different sizes of 18" radials in race compounds.

So the question is for our (non North American) members. What are your experiences with different 18" race rubber? Also what do you pay for the tires you use?

Thanks

[gschuld]

My popcorn 🍿 is ready....

🤔

George

[bwaller]

I would like to know if there are other options besides Avon, Heidenau, or Continental.

I'm not sure why this can't be discussed but if it becomes a
 he said she said, then forget it!

[turboguzzi]

before you take the radial plunge, consider that the Conti fronts seem to like wider rims than bias tires.... a bit of a bummer or youll have to go narrower to fit the rim.
the rear 130 worked well with the same 3.00" rim i used with the 130/65 avon, though
there seems to be some news in the marketplace driven by the successful "guzzi fast endurance" trophy in italy. pirelli developed for the new guzzi V7 "RS" race compound donuts based on the 18" Phantom Sportscomp. am tying to find out if people outside the trophy can buy it too.

[bwaller]

A friend here used the Conti 130/80/18 3CR rear and had to change gearing the tire profile is so tall, certainly compared to an Avon. It did look tall too.

I asked all over the internet about how the new 3CR's work in the wet and never heard from anyone if they are improved compared to the earlier 2CR. Not enough experience yet perhaps.

The Metzeler appears to be more like a cut slick so may not perform well in the rain either.

Interested to hear about Pirelli TG.

I have paid $400+ Cdn dollars apiece for the last few Avon rears. I like Avon tires, but an certainly open to other options.

[turboguzzi]

quick check
$$$ a bit better than avon, but pirelli is sitll "premium brand" so around 140-150 euro per tire  front or rear
bummer is the only 110F and 150R availability, but look at the bottom table,  seems like they can work on a variety of rim widths

[PeWe]

My popcorn is ready....



George

Only good movies are worth a bucket of popcorn!

I can also imagine very interesting technical discussions where I'll learn something I did not know and has no own experience to throw in.

Lets hope guys with requested experience will chime in.

Heidenau tires are available here. I have them on both my CB750's street bikes. K44 front, K36 rear. Look like old Metzeler.
https://heidenautires.com/tires/motorcycle/vintage/

Their home page show these
https://heidenautires.com/tires/motorcycle/race/
Must be possible to dig out some when google the tire model. I checked their german site too. https://en.reifenwerk-heidenau.com/modules/3_reifensuche.htm

This thread is well worth a stiff Bloody Mary with lightly salted potato chips without E621and enjoy the reading !

[bwaller]

TG, looks like the 110/80 front is ideal on a 2.50 rim and the 130/70 rear on a 3.5 rim which is exactly what I now use for rims. The Sport Comp RS is indeed the race tire?

These Pirelli's were used on an endurance winning bike? It would be great to read some race reports.

Thanks

[MRieck]

Sent to me by a European friend  http://www.cambriantyres.co.uk/bridgestone-new-tyres-2020/   I don't know if they will be offered in North America.

[bwaller]

Wow thanks Mike. I've been hoping Bridgestone would step in. Looks like rear sizing keeps them out of the game for me for now.

[simon#42]

if you cant get them over there brent i can always send you a pair .

[livefast_dieold]

A friend here used the Conti 130/80/18 3CR rear and had to change gearing the tire profile is so tall, certainly compared to an Avon. It did look tall too.

I asked all over the internet about how the new 3CR's work in the wet and never heard from anyone if they are improved compared to the earlier 2CR. Not enough experience yet perhaps.

The Metzeler appears to be more like a cut slick so may not perform well in the rain either.

Interested to hear about Pirelli TG.

I have paid $400+ Cdn dollars apiece for the last few Avon rears. I like Avon tires, but an certainly open to other options.

Guys that have used CR3 this year say they are better than CR2 on the wet but pretty similar on dry.
As for Pirelli, they perform as Conti's on dry but consume much faster.

That's all for post-race tittle-tattle from Italy :-)

[turboguzzi]

TG, looks like the 110/80 front is ideal on a 2.50 rim and the 130/70 rear on a 3.5 rim which is exactly what I now use for rims. The Sport Comp RS is indeed the race tire?

These Pirelli's were used on an endurance winning bike? It would be great to read some race reports.

Thanks

the pirelli rear is a 150/70....
yes, RS is race "endurance" compound, looking at the lap times of these essentially stock V7 guzzis with pirelli's, not slow at all.

[bwaller]

Riccardo, I'm glad to hear the 3CR's are improved for wet weather.

Simon, I'll let you know if I need help sourcing.

Good info.

[turboguzzi]

TG, looks like the 110/80 front is ideal on a 2.50 rim and the 130/70 rear on a 3.5 rim which is exactly what I now use for rims. The Sport Comp RS is indeed the race tire?

These Pirelli's were used on an endurance winning bike? It would be great to read some race reports.

Thanks

the pirelli rear is a 150/70....
yes, RS is race "endurance" compound, looking at the lap times of these essentially stock V7 guzzis with pirelli's, not slow at all.

Just checked, the guzzi trophy uses 150 rear, so it confused me, 130/70 officially exist, shop adds "call for availability"
https://www.123gomme.it/it/TyreSize/DetailTyre/Moto/130-70-R18/130-70-R18-63V-Phantom-Sportscomp-RS-Rear-M-C_15240543/15240543?Reinforced=False&Runflat=False&HasAngebotderWoche=False&TyreManufacturerFilterKey=109&stexs=containerOrder-online

[gschuld]

https://ultimate-motorcycling.com/2019/10/04/metzeler-racetec-rr-tires-for-vintage-racing-first-look/

https://www.metzeler.com/en-ww/products/tyres/racetec-rr

https://www.google.com/amp/s/blog.motorcycle.com/2019/09/17/motorcycle-news/metzler-racetec-rr-now-available-in-18-inch-sizing-in-north-america/amp/

FWIW

I do wonder about the wet track performance considering the tread pattern isn’t exactly a traditional water shedding design.

[gschuld]

http://www.cambriantyres.co.uk/ride-test-metzeler-track-rubber/

 🤔

[turboguzzi]

problem easily solved. just keep a spare set of wheels with avons, known to work well in the rain.

agree that the metzeler thread looks more suited to dry weather

in the newish ContiRoadAttack 3 CR instead they actually improved the thread for wet weather, the 2 CR were not that trust inspiring in the wet

[gschuld]

For many racers, there is an understandable reluctance to deal with the whole wet weather/dry weather tire/wheel sets thing.  Having one set of tires that are competent in both wet and dry weather is ideal, and having a tire that isn’t worn out too quickly is a nice bonus.  Non insane pricing and reasonable availability are also helpful.  The Continental CR3 seems to be the leading all around competitor there.  Even if a dry track only tire would be a little better in the dry, or a rain tire would be a little better in the wet. 

George