Author Topic: Turn Signal Wiring Confirmaion  (Read 188 times)

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Offline Ace Blackwell

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Turn Signal Wiring Confirmaion
« on: November 10, 2019, 07:12:02 pm »
All,

I started to put my new turn signals on my 77 550F.   The rear signals have one wire and the front, two.  The wiring diagram however, shows 2 per signal on the rear and three for each signal on the front.  The common wire among all four is a green wire.  I'm  assuming the signals will ground to the body and therefore the green wire isn't needed.

Is this a wrong assumption?  None of the the signals I found on line had 2 wires for rear and 3 for front.

Thanks
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Online Deltarider

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Re: Turn Signal Wiring Confirmaion
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2019, 11:13:11 pm »
The third wire in front was to feed the second filament in the duplo bulb to get silly 'running lights' which do nothing but consume 16 Watts and make your bike look childish like a cheap toy. Combined with the 'headlight always on arrangement' it will make your electrical system waste a lot of energy and may also cause IGN switches prone to fail where those in other markets survive.
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Offline bryanj

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Re: Turn Signal Wiring Confirmaion
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2019, 12:04:21 am »
Yes they ground via the casing but if the front stems hold the shell to the ears the nut inside has a green wire that connects to the loom
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline kerryb

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Re: Turn Signal Wiring Confirmaion
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2019, 05:01:27 am »
All correct so far...it's the wiring diagram that may be confusing to some folks.  Honda chose to use the dark green wire to show the path of the negative side of the electron flow.  The other symbols you might see are an arrowhead formed by parrallel lines pointing at another short line.  This is referred to as "ground", sometimes called "chassis ground", and is used in the diagram to show where the metal of the device ( bike frame, headlight fork ear) is providing the path for the electrons to follow instead of an actual plastic coated copper wire.  The wiring diagram wouldn't be complete without showing both supply and return path for the electricity for each component of the electric system.

p.s. what was the question again?
intrigued by the wail...seduced by the scream.

Offline Ace Blackwell

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Re: Turn Signal Wiring Confirmaion
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2019, 06:53:12 am »
Thx all. I’ll ignore the missing wire for the moment. I can circle back if something goes south on me.
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Offline Bodi

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Re: Turn Signal Wiring Confirmaion
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2019, 02:53:52 pm »
It depends on what signals you have. Some, with plastic housings, need a ground wire connected. Some metal ones mount the lamp socket in a rubber shock mount and need some kind of ground connection, the OEM brake/tail light has the shock mount and a small ground wire from the socket barrel to the metal frame.
Most if not all aftermarket signals are a "single filament" type - even if it has LEDs - they have one brightness, unlike the OEM front signals that have dual filament bulbs: a bright signal and a less bright marker light function. All rears are signal only, unless someone who really likes marker lights added them.
So if you have a signal light with two wires, test it by touching the wires to a battery. If you get a dim and bright light by connecting battery "-" to the case and battery "+" to each wire in turn, it's dual filament. If you don't get any light that way then it likely wants one wire to ground and one to power.
Note that LEDs only light with power connected one way, no light the other way. Reverse wiring will not damage them (up to a point, but 12V is no problem).
The filament bulbs like an 1156 should have the socket's outer contact barrel grounded and the power on the centre contact. They will light the other way but there is a risk of the barrel shorting to something. All LED replacements for 1156/1157 bulbs need the outer case grounded to have correct polarity and actually light up.
The headlight shell harness wires are a bit confusing - for signals left is orange and right is light blue - the front marker wires add a white stripe that's easy to miss.

Online vik351

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Re: Turn Signal Wiring Confirmaion
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2019, 04:11:36 pm »
The third wire in front was to feed the second filament in the duplo bulb to get silly 'running lights' which do nothing but consume 16 Watts and make your bike look childish like a cheap toy. Combined with the 'headlight always on arrangement' it will make your electrical system waste a lot of energy and may also cause IGN switches prone to fail where those in other markets survive.

Is this fact or fiction(IGN switch failure)...??? I want my bike to look childish after being cleaned up by an old dickhead that did a U turn in front of me, writing off his old bomb and my K2 40 years ago...

I have only started riding again now and with head light on (Was on in my prang BTW to no avail...) and with FLURO VEST...!!!

Will the running lights actually do this...??? (My bike is a Hondamatic 750BTW) Was thinking of a LED running light on the top of the forks which is much more visible IMHO...??

vik... Thoughts...???

Offline bryanj

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Re: Turn Signal Wiring Confirmaion
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2019, 04:20:03 pm »
If your bike was flourescent orange, covered in multicolour flashing lights with you wearing a bright yellow onezie covered in flourescent stipes and a dayglo helmet some dickhead would turn accross you and claim he/she didnt see you!!!
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Online vik351

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Re: Turn Signal Wiring Confirmaion
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2019, 04:38:17 pm »
If your bike was flourescent orange, covered in multicolour flashing lights with you wearing a bright yellow onezie covered in flourescent stipes and a dayglo helmet some dickhead would turn accross you and claim he/she didnt see you!!!

Yep, that 70 year old bloke couldnt ,and prolly didnt turn his freekin neck to look properly...!!! and every prang I had was, "I didnt see you"

aint gunna change...!!!  :-\

vik...

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Re: Turn Signal Wiring Confirmaion
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2019, 01:33:32 am »
Is this fact or fiction(IGN switch failure)...???
Good question. Over the years I wondered more and more why Americans seem to have issues with charging and failing IGN key switches, whereas in other fora like the German, French, Italian and UK you hardly read about it. Now as far as the charging, I have already commented this many times, but it was not until recently that I realised that whenever an owner of such a US model turns his IGN key, he switches far more current in once than his European counterpart. I'd say some 5A more. That's a lot. Realise that whenever you operate a switch, some sparking occurs inside the switch, no matter how minute. The models for the US market switch a lot more current in once, causing ofcourse every time a bigger spark in that switch. Now, initially these models were not meant to have this headlamp-always-on-arrangement let alone these extra toy lights. However... the IGN switch was not modified and remained the same as on previous models. Could that explain why these switches seem to fail more often than in other markets? Just a question but I think it's quite plausible.
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Offline bryanj

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Re: Turn Signal Wiring Confirmaion
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2019, 01:41:16 am »
Very plausible also the weight of many keys wrecks the switch
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Online vik351

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Re: Turn Signal Wiring Confirmaion
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2019, 02:42:19 am »
Hmmm, I reckon your on to something there Deltarider...!!!

I wondered myself how stupid the setup was that the light comes on before ya have even had a chance to start the thing...!!!

And mine is the auto with a missing kick starter...

They are like "HOT" rocking horse siht to find nowa day...

Just the other day i had to jiggle the key a bit in the ignition to get power, looks like mine might be on the way out  ::)

vik...

Offline bryanj

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Re: Turn Signal Wiring Confirmaion
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2019, 03:31:27 am »
Fit a UK 750 rh switch with the lights on/off function
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline Ace Blackwell

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Re: Turn Signal Wiring Confirmaion
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2019, 08:32:07 am »
I’ve always wondered about a manual switch for the lights. When I bought my bike second hand around 1985, it had a toggle switch in the top of the LH side cover.  I just figured the PO put it in and eventually I bypassed it.  Is the a factory thing or was I correct in thinking it was an Operator installed option.

Also the rear turn signal lenses were red. Is that a factory thing or not?

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Offline Don R

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Re: Turn Signal Wiring Confirmaion
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2019, 11:57:31 am »
 The toggle and red rear lenses were mods done by many of us. The red lenses hopefully to get the attention of a car behind you, usually we put double filament bulbs in there to make extra running lights. The toggle was a common modification also. The easiest one I saw was a toggle in the headlight bucket wired through the ground wire, it would kill both the high and low beam when starting or troubleshooting. A pilot light was also a good idea to remind you it was off.
 My brother always has a cow when I remove the extra rear lights on a restoration and put yellow lenses back on. He doesn't believe removing a windjammer increases the resale value either.
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