Topic: Cylinder studs stuck, or broken.

[kaysystems]

So I carefully read all the advise found here and decided that since the four short studs on my 750 K0 are really corroded, and I have oil leak problems, I'll go with HD studs and a few more oil sealing goodies.

Well those four short studs just refuse to come out, and the very corroded one has snapped near the bottom.

Any advise on removing what's left (& the other 3 studs)

thanks

David

[scondon]

  The best method for removing the snapped/broken studs is to weld a bolt to the stump and use a wrench or socket to spin it out. I don't have the tools to do this myself so I take the bottom end to my local machine shop and have them do it. It's surprising how easy the stumps come out using this method.

   I have been unsuccesful trying penetrating oil and heat on stubborn/stuck studs. What has worked very well for me is to hit the side of the stud with a hammer until the stud is bent at least 60 degrees. Then use the bent portion of the stud as a lever to spin the stud out. Studs that would not come out using double nut method with heat and penetrating oil came out fairly easy using this method. Chung taught me this one, Where ya at Wayne?

[kaysystems]

Down to two stumps now. I'll try to find a shop I can trust. I don't think my local bike guy will touch it with a welder

David

[Hockers Choppers]

I got two sets out with heat and a stud socket. They are a #$%*!! I talked to Ken at cyclex and he told me sometimes they have to scrap cases because they can't get them out! The ends of the honda studs are tappered and they seat in very tight. Need to run a tap though them when you get the studs out, the tappered stud kind of mushrooms the threads.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

I hurt for you guys. The ONLY way I would attempt to remove studs is with the stud socket/stud removal tool Hocker has referred to. I just took out all studs without snapping one. I actually double nutted them and used the tool. By just double nutting you can see the shaft twisting. I initially tried a pair of vise grips and double nuts but the vise grip would slip.

David - if the stumps are long enough you might be able to use the stud socket. However be very careful that the bottom of the tool does not come into contact with the case mating surface.

[bwaller]

Yes studs can be a real problem, I just broke a 6mm exhaust stud on a 550 head, about three threads inside the hole, #$%*.
 
David, Seans welding trick is the best way to go, I weld a nut though.

[Hockers Choppers]

Don't be a stud and bust a nut in the hole.....then your REALLY in trouble!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kaysystems]

I got two sets out with heat and a stud socket. They are a #$%*!! I talked to Ken at cyclex and he told me sometimes they have to scrap cases because they can't get them out! The ends of the honda studs are tappered and they seat in very tight. Need to run a tap though them when you get the studs out, the tappered stud kind of mushrooms the threads.

What stud socket do you use?

The tapered seats is definitely the problem, but I think that careful machining cold machine them out.
Mine are broken off almost flush with the casing. Absolutely no stud socket room

[scondon]

 I've had them break with just a 1/16" of the tapered base poking up above the case and that was still enough for the guy to weld on a bolt and spin it out.

  I bought, and still have one of those stud socket tools but I don't use it anymore. It works just fine for most studs, but not the weathered or stuck ones. You can still snap the stud using this tool and then you're stuck with a broken stud jammed in the tool Bending the stud with a hammer and grabbing the bent end to spin the stud out has worked much better for me.

[crazypj]

When there is only a short piece of stud left sticking out its best to find a nut that just fits over it and 'burn' the broken stud into the nut (this also works when its slightly below the surface) You have to let things cool down slowly or you make the stud harder and brittle which means it just snaps again.
 Heat the case and use some gum remover spray (for freezing chewing gum stuck to carpets)
 I have a can of MAXIM CC907, propane/butane mix, gets frosty
 Wrap masking tape around 'bolt' head you made ( make a little 'bucket' to hold freeze spray) and the differential expansion frees everything up
Usually works
If not, its out with the carbide drill bits. Never 'lost' a case yet
PJ
Modified at 2.33am
Removed a set of studs earlier  tonight.
Wouldn't come loose without some heat, used a small propane torch
I had  bought a cheap non-contact thermometer from Harbor Freight a couple of months ago, says it was around 260 deg. F. localised heating around stud but the entire case got quite 'warm'
I also use a Snap-On CG500 stud remover as it doesn't damage threads. It like a collet, gripping full length of thread. Bes stud remover I have ever seen (or used)

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Stud Extractor Tool from Harbor freight

[crazypj]

Stud Extractor Tool from Harbor freight

Problem with that type is they damage studs and you then need to replace them.
The Snap-On has a threaded collet and causes no damage to stud or thread.
 It is a lot more expensive though ( although probably not too much more than a full set of new studs)
It would have been cheaper if I had researched things and bought the metric set straight off instead of buying inch set and extra colletts
PJ

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

I'm with you on the potential damage PJ. My vise grips wouldn't grab tight enough and ate up the shaft a fair amount. I went to Sears first and theirs wasn't small enough. I found mine at Pep Boys. It did very little damage to the shaft but less but worked great. The Harbor Freight is about $10.00 less. My Harbor Freight however is on the other side of town.

My thought is that the studs have already stretched. If I have the engine down the studs will be replaced anyway so doing a little damage to the shafts of the studs in my case is irrelevant. And, why would anyone remove the studs UNLESS they are replacing them anyway.

Main thing here is, if you are removing studs for whatever reason you do not want to break them. Extra time, expense, and hassle that we do not need. A $5 investment is a damn good investment.

I'm hesitant to bend them like Sean has done. It works but with my luck I'll also break something on the case. Guess I'm just a chicken #$%*.   

Side note:
Be very careful with this tool. Use it as low as possible on the shaft. DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT let it eat into the case mating surface!

[scondon]

Side note:
Be very careful with this tool. Use it as low as possible on the shaft. DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT let it eat into the case mating surface!

     Found this out the hard way Thankfully it gouged near the cam chain tunnel so any leaking goes back in the engine rather than outside it.

I'm hesitant to bend them like Sean has done. It works but with my luck I'll also break something on the case. Guess I'm just a chicken #$%*.

    Having spare engines that are beyond repair makes one bolder   I doubt if I would have had the nerve to try this method on a keeper. I did not go gently on the "practice" motor when trying this and found that the cases were plenty sturdy and threads did not get damaged. I've since done it on two "keeper" motors with no ill effects

[techy5025]

Are the studs still available for 750 engines separate from the upper case? Might
be handy to know if I need to pull the diecast engine apart.

Any replacements better than the originals?

Jim

[crazypj]

I'm with you on the potential damage PJ. My vise grips wouldn't grab tight enough and ate up the shaft a fair amount.
My thought is that the studs have already stretched. If I have the engine down the studs will be replaced anyway so doing a little damage to the shafts of the studs in my case is irrelevant. And, why would anyone remove the studs UNLESS they are replacing them anyway.

If your removing them to change them go for it, do whatever works and is cheapest.
 I would not remove studs to clean cases though.
 I do remove studs on a fairly regular basis to bore cases for cylinder spigot clearance, its possible with studs in place, but so much easier with them removed (big holes syndrome )
 I've also had to change studs when changing cases during insurance repairs (someone forgot to order new studs-not me, as I know about it )
PJ

[clarkjh]

Sort of off topic a little, but......
Is there anyone that makes heavy duty studs for the 550, APE doesn't, like they do for the 750?  I'm going 2nd over as well as a slight shaving of both the cylinder top and bottom of the head so both are flat, witch will bring the CR up a bit.

James

[Hockers Choppers]

Hey kaysystems, Did you get the studs out?

[kaysystems]

Hey kaysystems, Did you get the studs out?

Working on it.

I couldn't find anyone locally that was happy about welding. My local bike shop liked the idea but as he is not an expert welder, said no.

So I restocked the carbide drill bits, and am drilling out. I only get a very short period of time through the week. Got one out. Not a job to be rushed though.

Thanks for all the help. Gee, I wish I was better at welding.

David

[Hockers Choppers]

I'd look some more for a welder! I don't know what you'd do once you drilled it out? I don't think a tap will touch the hard stud. But I got lucky and got mine out with out drilling!!!

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Are the studs still available for 750 engines separate from the upper case? Might
be handy to know if I need to pull the diecast engine apart.

Any replacements better than the originals?

Jim

Jim,
If you're referring to studs for the lower end as they've been called (ie the 10 that hold the crank down that are in the lower case) the answer is yes. Buzz at Dynoman.com has resurrected these only recently.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Are the studs still available for 750 engines separate from the upper case? Might
be handy to know if I need to pull the diecast engine apart.

Any replacements better than the originals?

Jim



Jim,
If you're referring to bolts/studs for the lower end as they've been called (ie the 10 that hold the crank down that are in the lower case) the answer is yes. Buzz at Dynoman.com has resurrected these only recently.

[Big Jay]

Are the studs still available for 750 engines separate from the upper case? Might
be handy to know if I need to pull the diecast engine apart.

Any replacements better than the originals?

Jim

Our aftermarket cylinder studs are much higher quality than oem, and are available. We have seen a huge surge in demand for them which leads us to believe, oem may no longer be available.

http://cbrzone.com/studs.html

Jay

[techy5025]

Thanks for the info Jay.

Jim

[kaysystems]

Got mine all installed.

David