Topic: Tire trouble

[budman]

A couple of weeks ago I got a flat rear tire on my 2010 HD Road King Classic.  Long story, but I actually rode several miles with the flat without realizing it was flat. Hard to imagine, but that was the case.  I feel fortunate I didn’t go down.

I finally got around to removing the rear wheel and took the tire off the rim today.  The tube was a mangled mess.  The tire has delaminated on both the right and left side all the way around the inside of the tire.  See the photos.  The liquid in the tire is just some waxy detail spray that I used as a lubricant to help get the tire off the rim.

I found no nail or foreign matter that would have caused a puncture.  After thinking through the whole ordeal over and over my guess is that the tire may have slipped on the rim causing the tube to rip.  I was on my way home, nearly there, after a four hour round trip.  I had checked the tire pressure the day before the flat and added a little bit of air.  I have run tires for years at 36 psi.  I’m not sure what might cause a tire to slip on a rim, but I suppose it could happen.  The Road King has spoked wheels.  The rim strip was hanging out of the tire after the flat.

Anybody experienced something like this or seen anything like this before?  Not sure if the delamination caused the slippage or is a result of riding on a flat.  I’m wondering if it would be worth filing a warrant claim.

[seanbarney41]

Wow.  Is that a tube type tire or tubeless?  I know most manufacturers claim tubeless tires can be run on tube type rims...

[budman]

Wow.  Is that a tube type tire or tubeless?  I know most manufacturers claim tubeless tires can be run on tube type rims...

It’s a tubeless tire.  I’ve run plenty of tubeless tires on spoked wheels.  It’s a Metzeler ME888.

[seanbarney41]

Wow.  Is that a tube type tire or tubeless?  I know most manufacturers claim tubeless tires can be run on tube type rims...

It’s a tubeless tire.  I’ve run plenty of tubeless tires on spoked wheels.  It’s a Metzeler ME888.

yeah, me too.  I was just thinking maybe this is why the flat tire stayed on the rim so long and stayed rigid enough for you not to notice was because those tubeless beads fit so tight onto tube type rims.  That's why it is so hard to get those beads seated sometimes when mounting up a new one.  Tube type tire probably would have popped the bead easier and a lot sooner.

[jgger]

I think the blistering/separation is from the rim riding on the sidewall. Plus the bead looks like it didn't come loose from the rim, so I doubt that it spun and tore the stem. The stem was probably torn after the flat.

As far as the cause of the flat....... Could have been a wrinkle in the tube that finally wore through, could have blown some debris into the valve core when you aired it up. Even moisture in the stem/core that froze. Kinda hard to tell at this point. They do take a beating when you run them flat though. Just for S&G check your wheel for true or loose spokes now. I rode about 15 or 20 miles on my old dirt bike in Barstow to Vegas in the 70's and had to rework the wheel, it was a wobbler after that one!

Glad you are ok and didn't go down. That old Harvey Davis must handle pretty bad if you didn't know it was flat........... or somebody had a little too much secret sauce in them.🙈🙉🙊🍻

[budman]

Glad you are ok and didn't go down. That old Harvey Davis must handle pretty bad if you didn't know it was flat........... or somebody had a little too much secret sauce in them.

I had stopped for gas about 20 miles from home.  I hadn’t noticed anything weird up to that point.  When I left the gas station I gave it lots of throttle to get up to highway speed quickly.  It felt like my clutch was slipping, so I thought at the time, but I think it was the tire slipping on the rim.  I didn’t feel anything odd at cruising speed, but I made a left turn about five miles down the road and it felt like I hit a bit of an oily patch.  For about the next six or seven miles it began to feel like I was riding in and out of grooves in the pavement occasionally.  The rear tire is a 180.  The width probably helped keep me more or less “stable”, plus I’m in southeast Texas where most of the highways are straight lines and flat.  Then the handling got bad really quickly.  That’s when I pulled over.  The tire was smoking.

No secret sauce for me.  I gave that up years ago.

I’ll put the wheel on my truing stand

[Stev-o]

Hey Bud....have never seen a tube twisted like that...crazy.

I've never run Metzlers, but a lot of guys here love them, always get good reviews.

How old is that tire? [check sidewall for date of manufacture]  If just a couple years old, I would contact the manufacturer for a replacement.

Good to hear you didnt go down, I've had a couple rear flats, it is a weird feeling when the handling goes away.

[budman]

Hey Bud....have never seen a tube twisted like that...crazy.

I've never run Metzlers, but a lot of guys here love them, always get good reviews.

How old is that tire? [check sidewall for date of manufacture]  If just a couple years old, I would contact the manufacturer for a replacement.

Good to hear you didnt go down, I've had a couple rear flats, it is a weird feeling when the handling goes away.

I’ve had a bunch of Metzelers.  Always been pleased with them.  These ME888 have been the best handling so far.

I put this set on the Road King in 7/18.  The date stamp on the tire is 01/18.  I’ve got about 10k miles on these tires and it looks like I could have gotten probably another 3k out of the rear tire easily.

I read Metzeler’s warranty claims stuff and you have to take the tire to a dealer.  I’ve got a buddy with a bike shop.  I’m going to ask him if he’s ever seen anything like this and if he’s ever done a warranty claim.  He’s done a kajillion tire mounts.

[scottly]

Hey Bud, did you try running a rag around the inside of the tire? I've had punctures from wire staples that were nearly invisible, but would snag on a rag.

[754]

Pretty sure it's excessive flees from being run with little air.
 How cold was it? If it was say 45 or cooler,  it may have made the mounting film on the tire less grippy, just a thought..
 I think for that to happen to the tube it had slipped around more than a few times..
 Wall hangers..

[754]

 Take the tube to your buddy that mounts tire, and while keeping a straight face, ask him if he can patch it...lmfao..

[Terry in Australia]

Yeah, I'm guessing most of that damage was done when the tire went flat, and wasn't the cause. I rode my Triumph Rocket III the 800 miles from my brothers place to mine in 2009, and thought the handling was pretty bad as it "wallowed" thru the bends in the Adelaide hills, but was nice and stable in a straight line. I didn't bother checking tire pressures because my brother had the local Triumph dealer prepare the bike for my ride home, and he (the dealer) assured me that he'd pumped the tyres up, filled the gas tank, charged the battery, etec etc.

I should have realised that he was full of sh1t when it almost ran out of fuel 5 miles from the dealership, but when I dropped it off at the Triumph dealer here in Melbourne the next weekend, the service manager told me that I had less than 10 psi in each tire.......... Those tyres (Metzlers) are still on the Rocket III 10 years and 8000 miles later, and still roadworthy. (just) I think I might invest in some new ones, apart from their age, on a big heavy bike like a Rocket III or a Harley, 8-10K miles is about the most you should expect from a set of tires before it's time for new rubber. Tires aren't cheap, but cheaper than an ambulance ride.  

[budman]

Hey Bud, did you try running a rag around the inside of the tire? I've had punctures from wire staples that were nearly invisible, but would snag on a rag.

No, but I'm going to give it a shot in the morning.  Thanks for the suggestion.

[budman]

Pretty sure it's excessive flees from being run with little air.
 How cold was it? If it was say 45 or cooler,  it may have made the mounting film on the tire less grippy, just a thought..
 I think for that to happen to the tube it had slipped around more than a few times..
 Wall hangers..

I'm sure it looked like a dryer full of clothes inside the tire.  There was a little rectangular patch of tube left at the stem.

[budman]

I think y'all are right about the delamination happening because I rode on the flat for so long.  I would really like to find out what/why it happened or what failed first.  I may never know.  The first sign that something wasn't right was when I pulled out of the gas station, giving it a lot of go juice and felt something slipping.  But it's just a stock little ol' 96er and that ain't the first time I've given her a big helping of fuel out of the shoot.  Hard to fathom that I could spin a properly inflated tire loose from the rim, unless something else was wrong first.

[Terry in Australia]

Yep, but you could have spun an "already deflating" tire on the rim, with much less sidewall pressure. As you've said, it's no powerhouse.  

[Stev-o]

Yep, but you could have spun an "already deflating" tire on the rim...

Also my thoughts...

[754]

Like I mentioned,  what was the temperature when it happened ?

[budman]

Like I mentioned,  what was the temperature when it happened ?

Probably about 65-70F that day.

[budman]

I spent this morning cleaning up the rim and inspecting the tire.  I tried scottly's rag trick on the tire but no snags.  I took the tire outside and inspected it in the sunlight (inside and out) and can't find any foreign object, rip, tear or anything that looks like it would have caused the tube to loose air, other that the delamination on the inside.  I soaped up, scrubbed and pressure washed the rim, then cleaned off every speck of rubber and residue I could find with solvent.  I carefully sanded any burr type of anomaly on the tube side of the rim that I thought might have a micro chance of puncturing an innertube.   I even bead blasted a few small rust spots and put a coat paint on them.  I also polished the rim and inspected all the spokes.  I put rim on the truing stand and from my limited experience I would say the rim is fine, still round and true within tolerance.  Looks like an almost new rim now.

I'm going to try and take everything to my buddy's shop on Saturday and get his opinion.

[Stev-o]

Hey Bud...that is puzzling. All I can say now is it must not be a Honda!  Ha....

[Terry in Australia]

Just put a new tire on it, and keep an eye on the pressure.

[budman]

Hey Bud...that is puzzling. All I can say now is it must not be a Honda!  Ha....

The wheel is made in Italy, the tire Brazil, the inner tube...probably China.  You could probably make a case for it not being a Harley either.

[budman]

My buddy with the bike shop says he sees that type of delamination all the time on cop bikes.  He said the cops are always riding on the road shoulders, picking up nails and screws and they just keep riding on the flat tires, chewing up the inside of the tires.

His other mechanic had never seen a tire delam like that before.  He thought what I initially thought, that the delam possibly caused the flat. 

Neither of them had seen a wadded up tube like that though.  My buddy said the tubes on the cop bikes are usually shredded when they ride them flat.

Still don’t know what made the tube go flat.  Couldn’t spot any positive identifiers.

Anyway...He’s hooking me up with a good deal on a new tube and tire and I lived to ride another day.

[PeWe]

I got a flat on my CB750 K2 front tire last summer. I had thoughts about why, sabotage included. Got bike home after refill at a nearby boat shop, air leaked slow enough to manage 30 minute ride home.

I discovered why when raplacing the tube that had a 3" long scratch mark with a small hole in the end. I understood it was my own fault caused when wrenching on the tire 1 year earlier. Too bad use of the tire irons.

I could not find any mark in the tire where the puncture was, no hard or sharp objects either.  I knew how tire sat on rim. Tire sit with it's red dot (lightest point) lined up with valve for balance.

A mistake can pop up long time after. This time when I was 35 km away from home. Why not when parked in my garage which it is most of the time so I could have taken the other bike?

[budman]

My buddy is a stand-up guy.  Things are a little tight at the moment.  I was able barter for the tire.  He set me up with a new Metzeler ME888 and tube, and I made him this sign for his shop.

[Terry in Australia]

Nice sign!

[PeWe]

The American Picker TV show guys buy signs like that paying a lot for them

[Stev-o]

Hey Bud...I think he got the long side of the stick. 
A sign company would charge a grand for a nice sign like that!

[budman]

Hey Bud...I think he got the long side of the stick. 
A sign company would charge a grand for a nice sign like that!

A grand?! Really?  Too bad I’m not a sign company.  I rediscovered the wood out in my yard shed and thought it would make cool retro signs.  I’ve made a couple for myself and a few of these for some friends.  The bike shop sign is 36”w x 22.5” tall.  I glued two boards together.  I’ve got about five hours in it, mostly in making the stencil.  I didn’t mind the trade.  We’ve helped each other out in the past.

I made this other smaller sign for another buddy who owns a tool shop.  I traded him the sign for a 36mm wrench and a 36mm socket so I could remove the axle to get to the flat tire. LOL.

The things you’ll do when you’re short on cash.

I’ve got some more of this lumber.  It has the old gray paint on it already.  I think it was in the shed when we bought the house...or I inherited it from my uncle, can’t remember.

Where would one advertise these signs at $500-1k/ea. ?

[Terry in Australia]

How'd you make the stencil Bud? My dad was an old time sign writer who would free-hand signs like that with a brush, but he did "silk screening" of metal signs for the local real estate agent. I remember helping him do a batch of a couple hundred signs back in 1980, I've never worked so hard in my life!

You could certainly make some good dough doing signs with those skills, but they wouldn't be of any interest to "American Pickers" etc, as they're not old, original "Patina" signs. Good job.

[budman]

How'd you make the stencil Bud? My dad was an old time sign writer who would free-hand signs like that with a brush, but he did "silk screening" of metal signs for the local real estate agent. I remember helping him do a batch of a couple hundred signs back in 1980, I've never worked so hard in my life!

You could certainly make some good dough doing signs with those skills, but they wouldn't be of any interest to "American Pickers" etc, as they're not old, original "Patina" signs. Good job.

I used AutoCAD to design the signs using a sign painters font.  I have to tile print it and tape the sheets of paper together.  I used some spray adhesive to glue another layer of paper to the back because a single layer of paper was too flimsy.  Then I cut out the characters with an exacto knife, being careful with the A, D, B, O, P’s leaving the centers intact and stencil like.  It’s tedious, but when I’m in the moment I just have to tell myself to get it done.

Then I used the same spray adhesive on the back of the stencil and stick it to the board.  I spray the black drop shadow with a can of spray paint, then pull up the stencil and move it over a little bit, then spray the white and the other colors.  I have to brush touch the A, D, B, O, P’s etc.

Once all the colors are done and it’s dry enough I bugger it up with sandpaper and scotch bright pads.

Funny thing...I’m actually watching American Pickers at the moment and they’re buying newish hand-painted “tribute” signs from a dude who made them himself.