Author Topic: Terry's lazy K1 "Patina/Survivor" build, I'm not big on shiny bikes...........  (Read 2116 times)

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Offline Terry in Australia

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So this one is a way off, and might not get into full swing until next winter, but I thought I should still start a thread (at Per's suggestion) on the build of another bike, from a pile of parts I bought last week.

The K1 is, and always will be, my favourite CB750. I've owned over 20 (I don't know how many really) CB750's over the last 42 years, and my favourite was my K1 that I bought as a complete non-runner in 1981, that came with a spare bike, (K0 or K1, I can't remember, I gave it to a friend because I was living interstate and didn't have anywhere to store it) for the princely sum of $300.

Back then CB750's were cheap, but that was still a great deal. I bought it from a school friend one late night in the local pub while on leave from the Army, and me and my mates Peter and Dave went out to Malcy's farm the next day and dragged it home to their mum's place, where, fuelled with more alcohol, we did a head swap, and almost burned it to the ground when Davey installed all the float valves upside down.

Anyway, I did a slow "restification" over the next year or so, and after only one engine blow up (a mechanic I paid to do some engine work thought that silicon was better than new gaskets) Pete and I rebuilt it again the following year, and I enjoyed another 4 years of trouble free bliss, until I succumbed to the temptations of more power, via a Kawasaki Z900. I miss them both.

As I said, last week the remains (a frame and an engine with the cam chain hanging out of it's cases) arrived at my place. I paid way too much for it, but damn it, I like K1's, so I'm looking forwards to putting it back together, and collecting enough parts to turn it back into a bike again. Here are some pics.

Terry's new K1 project 14 Nov 2019 a by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Terry's new K1 project 14 Nov 2019 b by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

As I said at the start, I'm not sure when I'll start on this one, I want to start now, but I need to finish off my K2 and build my Kawasaki Z1000 "Mad Max" bike, and it really is impossible for me to do two at once, so we'll see. I have been Ebaying for lots of parts though, so at least I'll be able to update this thread as more parts arrive.

While we're waiting, Per's suggested that we can all try to guess what caused the cam chain to break? I might pull the top end down later (looks like someone already did, but that's OK) to see what it looks like inside. Luckily it's got a later model head on it, and I have a nice early K1 head sitting in my garage, so no problem there. Thanks for dropping by! ;D

     
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline seanbarney41

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jesus Terry!  You have not even got the k2 swamp rat dialed yet.

Oh well.  I challenge you to a friendly race as I am working on a K1 as well, AND a kz1000 mad max bike.
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline seanbarney41

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Hopefully, a pic will inspire you to catch up.  Mine is almost ready for its first tentative, unregistered and illegal wobble down the block.  But, there are problems at every step with this junk heap that I have been picking at for 10 years!
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline seanbarney41

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 My k1 looked like this...until I rode it, tore the engine down to  fix numerous fountains of oil, found a broken piston, bored it for wiseco 836...the cylinder head is getting redone right now and the rest of the bike is in a billion untouched pieces, so you have a strong chance on this one
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline spotty

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i shall be lurking in the background as usual
i blame Terry

Offline Terry in Australia

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Thanks Guys, and Sean, I don't know if I'm up for a race, I think you're a fair bit ahead of me with those two beauties, but I suppose we'll see. I'm really looking forward to both projects, CB750's are dead simple for me because I've done so many of them over the years and most of the parts I need are at hand, whereas I haven't had the pleasure of playing with a big air cooled Kwaka since my one and only Z900, so if I don't have a particular widget on hand, the project will stall until I can find one.

Wemoto in Japan are a great source for Z parts and quick to ship, I've already spent a small fortune on parts with them, so at least if I do get stuck I shouldn't have to wait too long.

Back to the K1. It was a stinker yesterday, temps hovering in the 90's, so too hot to play out in the driveway with the Swamp Rat. I've got a few health issues at the moment and one of them is dehydration, so I need to be careful on really hot days, so I decided to have a look at the spares that came with the K1, and put them away in the garage, then pull the top end down to witness the carnage that we're all expecting, after it dropped it's cam chain.

The first thing that interested me was the spare crank. I've got several cranks here, but none with so many holes drilled in the counterweights, anyone else seen one like this?

Wednesday K1 stripping 20 Nov 2019 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Anyhoo, I started the stripdown. As I said before, it looks like someone else has gone in, and I presumed, gave up due to the horrors that lurk within. I'd seen some early pics that the PO had posted on FB with pics of a cam in a milk crate, and there were some rockers in with the spares, so I assumed that there wouldn't be anything underneath the cam cover. I was pleasantly surprised to see that the top end appeared to be in order, apart from missing most of the nuts and bolts.

Wednesday K1 stripping 20 Nov 2019 1 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr 

There didn't appear to be any excessive wear on the cam or rockers, which is interesting. On my first K1, which ate it's own top end due to silicon sealant being applied excessively by a "mechanic" who chose to slop silastic everywhere, rather than replacing gaskets. Some silastic had got sucked up into the oil jets in the head, blocking the oil supply, and the bearing end of my camshaft was chewed out so bad it looked like a cotton reel, the wiping faces of the rockers were all destroyed, and the cam tower bearing surfaces were all chewed out. By comparison, everything in this engine looks like it can be re-used.

Did I mention silicon? Yep.........

Wednesday K1 stripping 20 Nov 2019 2 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Wednesday K1 stripping 20 Nov 2019 5 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I'm guessing that this bike has been off the road for many years. Back in the day, silicon ruled, and everyone used it. I don't think any of this work has been done recently, because I doubt that anyone with access to social media and sites like this wonderful forum would still be ignorant to the limitations of using silicon sealants, like they were then. I say "They" because I learned the dangers of the stuff first hand as a 21 year old, so have always used "Honda Bond" or "Three Bond" etc, with a modicum of caution. So far, I haven't had any issues, apart from my first F2 rebuild when I used a "Loctite" case sealant, meant for gearboxes and not engines, and it washed out as soon as the engine oil got hot. No damage, apart from my broken heart as  watched oil pissing out of the engine as it happily idled away...... 

Anyway, I removed all of the rocker gear and the cam and examined it, then moved onto the head. This was where I was expecting some carnage. I've got an F2 head in the garage that came with some spares, it looks like it dropped a valve and the actual valve guide, and the combustion chamber looks like a bomb went off inside it. The first "spoiler" though, was looking across the head, it looked like all of the valves were closed? If any were bent, they'd appear to be in the "open" condition. Hmmnnn. Anyway, I un-did the two remaining cylinder stud nuts, and whipped the head off.

Wednesday K1 stripping 20 Nov 2019 7 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Yep, no carnage. The combustion chambers showed no damage, apart from lots of greasy carbon buildup, but it was kind of disappointing actually, but the plus side is that I have yet another usable late model head to use on a future project.

The pistons were well and truly stuck in the bores, and I could see that the numbskull who'd done the previous top end strip (probably the same numbskull who'd slopped silicon sealant everywhere) had smashed the bottom fins off the cylinder block trying to extract it. I sprayed some silicon lubricant spray (because it was close at hand) into each cylinder and used a chunk of brass and my hammer to bash the pistons out of the cylinder block, and I did get them to move, begrudgingly.

Wednesday K1 stripping 20 Nov 2019 6 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Yes, the head gasket was on backwards, but I assume that only happened when he did the strip down, and not the build?

Wednesday K1 stripping 20 Nov 2019 3 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

That was as far as I got, but I might sneak out today and do some more, I don't want to go too far, as I need to put the engine back together and away safely in the garage so I have the bench free for the Kawasaki build, which hopefully will be quick, I just want to weld on the missing frame sections, give the frame a squirt of paint, add all the new and used parts I've bought for it, and get my red plate. As time goes by, I will make it shiny, with modern forks, brakes, wheels etc, but it's easier to do it when the bike is registered, so it'll be done in stages.

I did take the opportunity to remove the clutch cover to ensure there was still a clutch in place, and was fascinated to discover a wasps nest under the chrome cover, complete with mummified wasp babies.

Wednesday K1 stripping 20 Nov 2019 4 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

The PO must have had a wasp problem, because I soon realised that all of the "dirt" that was clogging the nooks and crannies in the outer cases, was in fact, wasp nest material. Anyway, no biggie, they were all long dead. I also took the opportunity to see if I could manipulate the shifter drum with some multi grips, as I need to do that on the Swamp Rat. No problems there, while the shifter assembly doesn't have the "oomph" to turn the shifter drum if it's stuck from sitting for so long, I was able to easily turn it with the multi grips, so the Swamp Rat will have it's gears sorted later today, or tomorrow, then I can think about finishing the wiring, and planning a shake down ride.

So that was about it. What was it that caused the cam chain to break? Well I'm not sure that it did break, to be honest. I reckon a PO (not the bloke I bought it from) just pulled the joiner link when he pulled it apart, there simply isn't any evidence of the kind of damage we'd expect, if a cam chain let go at any engine speed. I'll remove the barrels and inspect them for piston seizure, and check the oil ports in the head for silicon contamination, but I don't think I'm gonna find much.

I'm going to propose another theory in fact, that the bike was crashed, and then just used as a spare parts bike. Back in the day CB750's were everywhere, they were cheap, and if you paid more than a dollar per cc, you paid too much. The frame has some minor damage, the right hand side passenger footrest bracket has been damaged, so I wonder if this bike hasn't just been retired and cannibalised for parts, as there was a lot missing? Thee engine number (106XXXX) and frame number (112XXXX) seem too far apart as the engine would have been manufactured in late 1970 and the frame considerably later, so maybe the engine "spares" that came with it, are the guts of the original engine?

I guess I'll never know, and I don't really care, it's still a K1, my favourite of all the mighty CB750's. I'm looking forward to riding it. ;D 

I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline spotty

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the only good wasp is a dead one, fcuking hate them, little stripey bastards
i blame Terry

Offline Terry in Australia

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Yep, very true, I had a mighty battle with a nest of European wasps who had burrowed deep into my overgrown garden back in 2015, I ended up chopping the nest out with my 117cc chainsaw, after insect bombing/drowning it and electrocuting them for a couple of weeks prior. Hopefully I'll never have to do that again, I really, really pissed them off.......... ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline PeWe

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Nice KZ1000! I like those bikes. Cost too much here.

I have seen a crank with many holes in another thread , maybe 2 years ago. I remember Mike's comment  like a bad day balancing the crank.

Interesting to see if K1 top end is ok, cam included.

Here is my K1 project!
Head exist too, it sat on my K2 earlier. Cylinder might be my K2' s existing 736
or 836 or 849  sitting on the shelf with fresh bores.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 09:10:33 PM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Terry in Australia

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Nice, what are the numbers Per? The cam, cam towers and rockers etc were fine, no oil starvation that I could see. They were all late model CB750 though, so I'll probably use some spare early cam towers and stuff to keep it close to original. I'd love to install a mild cam like the Andrews "drop in" cam I had in my original K1. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline PeWe

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Number here, engine only.
I might use another case since this is welded at right rear upper hanger bolt. My friend has some empty cases. This is just a package of parts. Rods frozen. [ Update: only rod 2 frozen on crank] Interesting to see inside, hopefully this winter. I have to do some thread repairs on my old ported head first.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2019, 01:04:29 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Terry in Australia

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Well I've decided that the K1 won't be another "factory original" bike, but rather, have some nice period aftermarket additions. Today I found a pair of Lester wheels on Ebay USA, so, due to the poor exchange rate and shipping (actually very cheap @ $64.00 USD) and import duties ($189.00 USD, ouch!) I bent over, spread 'em and grabbed my ankles. Still, no rusty rims or spokes to worry about, and I always thought Lesters look pretty good. I might have to sell my K0 stash to start paying for all these bits......... ;D

Terry's Lesters by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr
« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 01:06:58 AM by Terry in Australia »
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline PeWe

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Interesting progress, Terry!
It is very difficult to not order bike parts and build....
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Terry in Australia

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Thanks Per, I've been looking for a half decent pair of wheels for the K1, I've got a rusty front one here, but I didn't want to use it, and there have been very few on Ebay, so when I saw a nice clean pair of Lesters, I decided that they were the answer. I might put them on my K2 bitsa until I'm ready to start the K1 project, because the wheels on the bitsa are a bit wobbly. (weren't trued very well) Anyway, they were a nice pickup.

I've got a period oil cooler and a steering damper, and I'll keep collecting good after-market parts for it as time and funds permit. As I find some more "bargains" like these, I'll post pics, just to keep the thread alive until I start on it. Thanks for stopping by! ;D

I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Terry in Australia

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So with finishing off the Swamp Rat build, selling it to one of my bosses and buying the Yamaha 650 the K1 has sort of faded into the background a little bit. Yesterday I had to clean out my "Semi-Outdoor Workshop" and turn it back into a patio so I can host around 25 people for our annual Christmas Eve BBQ. With all of my health issues last year I didn't do the BBQ thing, so the patio was extra cluttered.

Terry's Christmas cleanup 2019 1 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Anyway, Steve tells me that organisation is the key to turn clutter into clean, so I bought some big heavy duty tubs with lids and filled them with new and used parts for the Z1000, CB750 and Yamaha 650, and stacked them out in the garage. Once I'm allowed back into the patio I'll just take the appropriate tubs, and leave the rest in the garage. I parked all the "project" bikes in the shade between the house and garage in the "Project Park", and once again, once I'm allowed back in to the patio, I'll just pull the Z1000 in, to start work. So after 6 hours of re-organising my mess, the Patio was clean again. A Christmas miracle.

Terry's Christmas cleanup 2019 2 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Whilst I was cleaning up the bench, I came across the K1 engine and remembered that I hadn't removed the cylinder block. AS I was using my patient lifter to lift the engine and transport it to the garage, I had a lightbulb moment, and tied the rope around the block, and suspended the engine a couple of inches from the bench, so that the block was taking all the weight of the engine.

Terry's Christmas cleanup 2019 4 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Then using my brass drift and my naughty hammer, I tapped on all the pistons, until they slid free of their bores.

Terry's Christmas cleanup 2019 3 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Done! OK, so I didn't have time to study the engine as I had so much to do, but it's good that the cylinder block is off. I have no intentions of reusing the pistons or the cylinder as there is damage to both (a previous owner managed to bust several fins off when trying to remove the cylinder) but I'm pretty sure I've got a better block in the garage somewhere. Anyway, I thought I'd post this to keep the thread alive. More later.  ;D

Terry's Christmas cleanup 2019 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr 
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)