Topic: Help assessing weak charge situation please

[juntjoo]

So the rotor is getting 1.5 ohms between slip rings, which I think is what it was a yr ago, and from core to each ring 33 ohms(short?). And 33-37ohms for the stator to all wires where the book said it should be .41 to .51 ohms. Another short?

The readings on the regulator are all good, consistent and within spec.

So I'm guessing for starters I need a new stator and rotor. But do I just grab one of these affordable aftermarket ones or do I have someone rewire mine using better materials which I think I read someone.

Or should I check something else before ordering parts?

[bryanj]

Would help to know what bike!

[Scott S]

 In his signature.  '82 Nighthawk 650.

[onepieceatatime]

http://hondacb650.com/viewtopic.php?t=3157

Sounds like your rotor shorted, which usually burns up the rectifier/regulator.

[juntjoo]

http://hondacb650.com/viewtopic.php?t=3157

Sounds like your rotor shorted, which usually burns up the rectifier/regulator.

Thanks. Yeah, I tested the regulator and it looked good. How about 32 for the stator. Anyone have one working with this him reading? Is it worth a try to maybe just get the rotor 1st and see if that works and if so just ride out the stator til it stops charging or do you need to get them together?

[onepieceatatime]

I probably won't make it to my rented garage space for about a week, so I can't take measurements from my cb650(s) or spare engines for comparison.
You are reading 32 M ohms (32,490,000) in that photo, is that connected between yellow wires on the stator?

[bryanj]

But you have to go to a totally different page to read signatures and on this dumbfone its a faff so i cant be arsed. In my opinion thr bike talked about should be a requirement in the subject title, but i an a cranky old fart who worked on most models of Hondas in the 70's so refuse to assume anything

[onepieceatatime]

Is it worth a try to maybe just get the rotor 1st and see if that works and if so just ride out the stator til it stops charging or do you need to get them together?

You do not typically have to replace the rotor and stator together. The stators are usually pretty robust, but if that measurement is between the yellow wires, you may have a partly broken stator wire, which would require it to be replaced. The rotor may have some shorted windings, accounting for the low resistance, so I would replace it, in the interest of protecting the rectifier/regulator, but I have a few spares in the garage.

[bryanj]

You need to deduct the inherant meter resistance(leads shorted together---never zero) from the readings you get from the coils to get a true reading.
There are 3 pairs of yellow wires out of the stator, when disconnected from loom each pair should have same reistance(fairly low) with an infinitely high resistance to ground. Same for roto slip rings.

All that type of generator have failures in the following order:-
1 brushes wear a lot
2 rotors fail
3 reg fails
4 stator fails--not  very often

[onepieceatatime]

You need to deduct the inherant meter resistance(leads shorted together---never zero) from the readings you get from the coils to get a true reading.

True, but if he is measuring only 1.5 ohms across the rings of the rotor, it is already too low and doesn't matter the meter resistance, should be 4-10 ohms across the rings. And when you are dealing with 32M ohms, where you should be measuring 0.5 ohms, the meter resistance is also irrelevant.

[juntjoo]

I probably won't make it to my rented garage space for about a week, so I can't take measurements from my cb650(s) or spare engines for comparison.
You are reading 32 M ohms (32,490,000) in that photo, is that connected between yellow wires on the stator?

Just checked. Thanks. I missed that in the book. So my analog meter is showing less than an ohm(or is that 1"X1K"??) indicates by that little knife I'm holding up there. Hard to get a pic while measuring. If that's less than an ohm then we're almost at the .41-.51ohm spec. But is 33 "continuity to ground" as the book asks?

The digi meter shows around 10 ohms for various ground points around the bike from the neg on battery for reference. My stator wires are getting more resistance to ground by 20 ohms. Is continuity" the same as infinity or no resistance?

[onepieceatatime]

The digi meter shows around 10 ohms for various ground points around the bike from the neg on battery for reference. My stator wires are getting more resistance to ground by 20 ohms. Is continuity" the same as infinity or no resistance?

It again looks like your innova meter is indicating mega ohms (the M next to the ohmega symbol).
What measurement do you get with just the leads touching each other?
If there is a problem with your meter or its leads, that is going to confuse things.

Continuity is the opposite of resistance, ie how well something conducts electricity. The better the continuity the lower the resistance.

[juntjoo]

The digi meter shows around 10 ohms for various ground points around the bike from the neg on battery for reference. My stator wires are getting more resistance to ground by 20 ohms. Is continuity" the same as infinity or no resistance?

It again looks like your innova meter is indicating mega ohms (the M next to the ohmega symbol).
What measurement do you get with just the leads touching each other?
If there is a problem with your meter or its leads, that is going to confuse things.

Continuity is the opposite of resistance, ie how well something conducts electricity. The better the continuity the lower the resistance.

Thank you. Okay, so I touched the leads together and I get like .8 ohm on the analog, same reading from yellows to yellows on the stator. The digimeter reads .3 an ohm and a bit over an ohm across the yellows. It also shows the "k" and not the "m".

As far as the 33 ohms ground reading to each stator wire for some reason I'm getting nothing

Checking ground to ignition and starter wires, as it's the other connector into the regulator next to the stator reliably gives same as putting leads together, .8 an ohm and the dial goes all the way to 0 for the red/white/main fuse wire. With digimeter I get the same under an ohm  and red/white the display flashes a number or two then falls back to ".L" it's default reading. But for some reason I almost never a get a reading on the stator to ground. But when I do it's in the millions when it reads 30-40. I also get the same checking the coil wires for reference. Wherever I get this 30-40 Mohms on the digital, the analog does nothing, dial stays to far left, towards resistance.

There's some confusion between my ignorance, a mystery defective part(s) and maybe a defective meter(?).  Hopefully you guys understand what I'm looking at better. Where I'm at in the book is 'replace stator if any terminals show continuity to ground". I'm not sure what I'm seeing here

If I've got the stator in its case bolted into the engine is there a possibility it's not 'grounded' properly? Sorry, kinda dumbfounded here

[bryanj]

OK lets try some basic lectrickery for you.

Contiuity or resistance is measured in ohms, kilohms or megohms increasing in scale.
Insulation needs to be in the megohm scale.
Think of it as water in a pipe, you want the water to through the pipe easy (low ohms) but not leak out of the pipe wall (megohms)
SO  you need the ends of the wires in a coil to be connected and depending on the amount and size of wire the ohms is low, but not too low or some of the windings are "shorted" whilst you do not want the wire to connect to the casing, shorted.

Hope that helps

[juntjoo]

Hey guys, I just got a new rotor and looks like I gotta use the rear axle as I've read in here to get it as my harbor freight jaw puller set doesn't quite fit. Just a quick question:  book has instructions to loosen other bolts connected to the chain tensioner and brake but is that necessary to pull the axle? If I punch it out, if it just doesn't slide out, will that damage anything or make things more difficult? I've never taken the wheel off. Thanks

[Scott S]

 Yes, you have to do those things. Follow the manual.
 Put the bike on the center stand and remove the axle.

[juntjoo]

Thx...

[juntjoo]

Okay so I got it in and I'm bangin away but do I just keep going. Using a big or age rubber mallet. This is usually the part in the chapter where I break something. I tried banging in it earlier without the axle, since I'm replacing the rotor anyway. I even torched the center where it sits in the crank shaft. I did a little careful prying. Nothing. 'the guy in the youtube video' did it after a couple knocks. Now with axle attached, bang or no bang?

Like, I'm thinking I should look for another axle on ebay before I do this. It's half way threaded in. It stops. I guess it runs out of space. Bad near vision

[bryanj]

It dosent come off with banging, you have to keep screwing the bolt in till it pushes the rotor off the tapered crankshaft

[juntjoo]

It dosent come off with banging, you have to keep screwing the bolt in till it pushes the rotor off the tapered crankshaft

Okay that makes sense except I'll have to find a way to lock the crank shaft. Okay thanks.

[bryanj]

Thats why the proper tool is easier to use. As it has 4 legs you whack one of the legs sticking out sidaways with a big hide hammer

[juntjoo]

Thats why the proper tool is easier to use. As it has 4 legs you whack one of the legs sticking out sidaways with a big hide hammer

What tool is this? Are you talking about a 4 jaw puller?

What about these? Did you know of these?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RGQHS8V/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_thlfEb81TPQ8J

This looks like the simplest method/tool.

I also found this:

https://ebay.us/jMw7J8

which looks even simpler but it actually looks the same as the last tool except missing a part. Alone I can't imagine how it would work.

Anyway, I'll have it off soon I think with the axle...

[bryanj]

Neither of those, if you go to Dave Silvers web site and look up cb 500 alternator puller you will see the genuine Honda tool.

NEVER EVER use a 3 or 4 jaw puller on a Honda generator unless you want to buy a new one!!!!!

EDIT
 
Looked it up for you part number 077330020001

[dave500]

a simple bolt.

[juntjoo]

Neither of those, if you go to Dave Silvers web site and look up cb 500 alternator puller you will see the genuine Honda tool.

NEVER EVER use a 3 or 4 jaw puller on a Honda generator unless you want to buy a new one!!!!!

EDIT
 
Looked it up for you part number 077330020001

Thanks Bryan. I see it's a cross lug nut looking wrench. Is it just four different sizes? Why not just a single bolt, essentially the correct one of the four of that big tool? I see now how it works: you just thread it in and it pushes against the crank pulling the rotor off.

Well I gotta take yet another detour as somehow I broke the tip off the "advancer shaft" holding the crank from that end. I just put my big ratchet on the hex nut resting the handle on the foot peg while I threaded the rear axle into the rotor. Didn't feel anything break but noticed I could turn the axle freely, looked on the other side to find it broke. Did I do a stupid? I figured I was just holding the crank with the ratchet. Idk. Anyway...

I guess you gotta take the bottom crank case off right? You can't somehow unscrew this shaft no? I see it's threaded on the inside by the pics I found of some to purchase on the internet. But then it's got a groove too I think for an o-ring. Anyone replace these before? Nothing in the manual.

Edit: found a bunch of threads in here on his to replace it. Apparently it's a common broken part