Topic: wintergreen treatments

[Redline it]

Hello, I'm going to attempt a wintergreen treatment of very little (1/2 oz $8.00) just a few drops of wintergreen to a few drops of isoprophyl alcohol mixed is it 1:4 drops ratio?, by brushing onto and inside of cb400f intake boots (that will not come off while motor is mounted in frame,) that are molded to aluminum mounts, covered with a plastic sandwich bag held in place by a rubber band.

Question is: will it help even if only brushed on and bagged, no boiling. is the mix ratio good enough. will it separate the molded in mount face that holds the oring?

I know it'd probably be just as easy to drop the chain pull the mounts and pull the motor out of swivel it sideways to impact drive out the 6mm screws, my luck has been running to low to do all that work to just snap off the bolts in the head. I'm out of chain hoist' as it's already holding another cb400f engine with a broken outer exhaust stud. thanks.   

[flybox1]

I bagged my F3 boots in doubled ziploc bags, with about 1/4 cup wintergreen oil.
After a week of shaking and turning, they came out nice and soft.
With only 1/2 oz of the stuff, i cant say what is the best delivery method. 
In your case, i might go with brushing it on.
 

[Redline it]

thanks flybox1, gonna brush it!

[Gman]

Please report back when you've tried it - it may be of use to someone down the line with the same question.  Hope it works - good luck.

Cheers,
G

[mystic_1]

Just going to throw this out there:

http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/cleaners/specialty-cleaners/rubber-renue-408a/

Rubber Renue works by causing the rubber cells of belts, platens and rollers to swell.  This swelling allows dirt, particles, and contaminants to be easily wiped away. Once the Rubber Renue has completely evaporated, the rubber cells shrink back to normal and the surface is refreshed and ready for service.

Rubber Renue TM is a blend of highly volatile solvents.  These solvents should not be breathed or used within a non-ventilated environment. Clean parts in an outside environment or under adequate ventilation exhausted safely outside the building.

The product performs best when used as follows:

    Use gloves, and appropriate safety measures to prevent breathing fumes.
    Take a clean dust free cloth and apply a small amount (just enough to dampen cloth) of Rubber Renue onto cloth surface
    Apply portion of cloth dampened with Rubber Renue onto Platen, Roller, or belt and wipe until surface is clean.
    Allow part to dry until the Rubber Renue has completely evaporated.


Store cloth in a sealed container after Rubber Renue TM has evaporated, until it can be washed or discarded.

Active ingredients:  60%-70% xylene, 15-30% methyl salicylate (wintergreen oil), 20-30% ethylbenzene!   

mystic_1

[Old Scrambler]

You would get the same effect by mixing the wintergreen oil with brake cleaner..............and it will evaporate in minutes

Regarding removing the intake manifolds from the spigots.................if the rubber manifolds are hard and stiff..........I've had good luck with ARMOR-ALL upholstery cleaner. Just spray it on the inside of the manifolds to soak into the spigot joint. A little amount on the outside at the edge of the manifold and spigot will also help. Then twist the manifolds. 

[Redline it]

Cool, I was waiting on a days of replies before doin it. So the Rubber Renue at 15% of 4.2 is .6 oz of wintergreen, I got close to that .5 oz, with some confidence, and the isoprophyl alcohol they, the intake rubbers will hit the treatment tomorrow. I did try small samples on diaphragms and hard fuel line ends today, the lines were changing within half hour to softer outer. The diaphragms I then added b12 chem stuff, then leather softener, then mineral spirits mink oil to brittle diaphragms by wiping it on. They were flexible by the end of the day. This site is pretty cool. Old Scrambler thanks I want to wait on that, I'm kind of slow, to think they twist off? With no forward clamp on the spigot? I see online, I had no idea it was 2 pieces. In a week after the intake treatments, I'm crammin the carbs back in, today I think I got the old fuel float jets dialed in, the rest of the jets are clear, if they leak at idle,  I'm tying a wound vac canister under the swingarm to catch the gas, and boat primer bulb to put it back in the tank.  I'll put an image or 2 someday, Thanks again!

[Redline it]

the follow up on brush on wintergreen treatments .5 oz wintergreen/1.5 oz isoprophyl alc 70% for mounted intake rubbers.  I got scared of the vapor's possible effects to internal seals/orings. So the zip lock bag method was used. Initially heated in warm water for 20 mins to pre soften the rubbers then dried and placed in the bag. 3 days, couple of hours in the sun each day. I didn't see much expansion, but they did soften. The first large zip lock back got a small leak, so I transferred to another zip lock, it leaked as well. Solution almost evaporated.

So I wouldn't buy wintergreen from a health/vitamin store in tiny .5 oz bottles for $8.00. It's not enough to work with. I would only use zip locks if the tiny amounts were all I had.   

[BobbyR]

You have to understand that you cannot put the chemicals that make the rubber soft to begin with. They have evaporated out.

You can use chemicals to break down the rubber which is what is making this softer. They will harden up. There is nothing wrong at all with what you are doing. It is not a long term solution, but that can be OK if you only need a a short term solution. 

[FrankenFrankenstuff]

One thing that crosses my mind every time I see a wintergreen post is....(pardon) lipstick on a pig. Urethane elastomers and tin cure silicones (like 40+ yo HM originalsgets brittle with time because they eventually wet out and lose the property that made them pliable. I know wintergreen does a fix, I have used brake fluid to do the same thing....to make hard old rubber flexible. Are the parts not something that can be purchased?  I don't know. Again. I know that the wintergreen trick does work but......

[Restoration Fan]

I purchased mine from www.bulkapothecary.com.
I purchased the 2 oz bottle for $16.99.
http://www.bulkapothecary.com/product/essential-oils/pure-therapeutic-grade/wintergreen-essential-oil/

I mixed about this much:


with 2 cups of water.  I put it on medium/low and left the carb boots in there on that temp for 5 minutes.  The boots experienced no swelling and they were softened enough to be pliable and allow us to work with them.

[WhyNot2]

One thing that crosses my mind every time I see a wintergreen post is....(pardon) lipstick on a pig. Urethane elastomers and tin cure silicones (like 40+ yo HM originalsgets brittle with time because they eventually wet out and lose the property that made them pliable. I know wintergreen does a fix, I have used brake fluid to do the same thing....to make hard old rubber flexible. Are the parts not something that can be purchased?  I don't know. Again. I know that the wintergreen trick does work but......

When using brake fluid, did you just soak the part in the brake fluid?

Thanks......I'm just looking to loosen it up enough to slip on and clamp, after that.........who cares.

As long as it stays with the clamp.

[Kelly E]

Buy your wintergreen oil from a veterinary supply co. or online for a lot less. They use it for rubbing down horses. A half hour soak works and you don't need to heat it up. The swelling comes from a longer soak but will go back to size as the alcohol gases off leaving the oil the soften up the parts. It works best with 95% or better alchohol.

[Doobie]

I have tried using the "wintergreen treatment" at least twice and in my experience, it was a waste of time and money. I'd rather spend the $50-$60 on new boots, which in the grand scheme of bike things is pocket change.

[Redline it]

I have tried using the "wintergreen treatment" at least twice and in my experience, it was a waste of time and money. I'd rather spend the $50-$60 on new boots, which in the grand scheme of bike things is pocket change.

it is temporary, i think if it's done right, like baking cookies, it last a while longer. but something like 7 dollars, could be more like 14 for a pint of wintergreen, like kelly was saying from a horse supply company, it's enough to last the rest of your life. in a large ziplock put whatever you're workin on, and only a couple of ounces if that of wintergreen and some alcohol, vacuum the air of the bag so the parts are in it. the only problem with anything today being new, they usually don't last a year before extreme cracking that no treatment can fix. that's 40 bucks a year or 2, if it's parked in the shade all day.

[Kelly E]

I treated the carb boots on my Sabre 3 years ago and they are still sealed and in one piece. I have also done fork boots and that worked well.

[Doobie]

[quote author=Redline it the only problem with anything today being new, they usually don't last a year before extreme cracking that no treatment can fix. that's 40 bucks a year or 2, if it's parked in the shade all day.
[/quote]

I doubt anyone needs to replace OEM manifold boots once a year, or even once a decade, for that matter.

[Redline it]

[quote author=Redline it the only problem with anything today being new, they usually don't last a year before extreme cracking that no treatment can fix. that's 40 bucks a year or 2, if it's parked in the shade all day.

I doubt anyone needs to replace OEM manifold boots once a year, or even once a decade, for that matter.
[/quote]

well when you finally break down and replace 30 year old parts that look kind of crappy, and you install something new, oem, whatever, you're installing something that has to compete with aftermarket junk, pure trash cost, and it has to cut corners where it can. it appears that retailers aren't concerned about their non stop complaints of failure as much as making 1 sale, and deal with it later. you can buy a brand new $10,000.00 motocross bike, and if you race it, 6 months later (its expected service life,) it's junk. i bought a seat, a replica and it lasted just under 2 years, not from hard and constant riding, it was like disappearo ink. the seams and the materials started to dissolve, the pan was flattening, and i weigh 150 (the company will tell you anything, total bs, to not account for it.) i don't know, companies like gravely tractor, not only did they make their products to last by selecting the best materials, they also gave the instructions on how to keep it running forever, at least longer than the life of the purchaser. poor kids these days, they base quality of tools by price on the best they see, harbor freight.

[pjlogue]

I would agree with BobbyR.  I have found any attempts to "restore" rubber, in the long run, cause even more hardening down the road as the carrier will actually remove the compounds which make rubber/plastic pliable.  The Wintergreen treatment will make it softer which may allow for refitting of rubber intake boots.  They can last years after as well but your best long term fix is replacement of the boot. 

-P.

[Doobie]

I've attempted softening rubber this way several times. What I've learned is buying a replacement solves the problem.

[Redline it]

Are you searching for best oils?

If yes, then I recommended you A G Industries.

not anymore but thanks for good lookin out.

(warning! do not read any further if you are pressed for time, or if salvaging roadside parts are not in any way a normal thing that you have done in the past. just to cover a release of liability in case you read on.)

at the time i hadn't worked for 10 yrs and buying the scent type oil was taking all my beer money. right after that i found probably on this cb site a horse supply store, and nearly for the same price i got 16 oz or something like that. and i did find out no matter how good the treatment goes it regains it stiffness somewhat by the next time you take the part off. hair dryer seems to be the thing, fast and pretty good. i still wouldn't buy aftermarket boots until at least 3 weeks of checkin on trash days didn't secure a pretty decent vacuum cleaner hose to cut. just recently i discovered in my spare parts pile a black hose with a couple bends on it that i salvaged off of a dish washing machine, awhile back from collecting the hose clamps, only i couldn't get the hose clamp off off one end of it, so i took the whole hose home and not kidding, it fit the crank vent nipple to the airbox perfect on both sides and the shape of it, was remarkably almost an exact preformed fit. so i retired the clear catheter tube that i was using. i'll bet you that it would've been fairly expensive part from the new old factory parts guy(s). there's even a part number on the new hose if anyone is looking for that long tube for a 400f 76'. in that system i'm lookin for that square oil separator of course foam rubber stuff. mine's about worn out. probably stupid running the blow by back through the intake again anyways.

[CaptFatCat]

I have had great success softening rock hard boots but its not quite the way I read others doing it but similar.
I tried the wintergreen boil, it only kept them soft a couple days.
So i dropped them in a plastic coffee can then covered them with fluid from my parts cleaner that consist of gasoline, lacquer thinner, wd40 and whatever else got mixed in along the way, put about a 1/2 ounce of wintergreen oil in and covered it tightly for 2 days.

I was surprised to see how soft they got and slightly swollen. I took them out of the solution and washed them with water, dried them off and placed them in a gallon ziploc bag and sprayed a couple ounces of wd40 on them and seeled it.

After just one day the swelling went down and they stayed soft, I kept them in the bag for a couple days before taking them out.
Its been 2 weeks sitting on the bench in open air and they still look nice and pliable. So I proceeded with a second set of boots and they are doing as well. now i have the stock airbox staks in the fluid and will pull them out tomorrow.

Now im rummaging around looking for more stuff to dunk.

Before this a heat gun was my only hope for installing and removing 50 year old carb boots.

[Don R]

 I tried go kart tire softener, it worked for a bit next I used that with additional Wintergreen oil and I boiled them. Loose in a box they all eventually got hard and shrank back up. However, the ones I put directly into use seemed to have held up better. I still have a jug of Wintergreen and water, and the tire softener mix. I'm not giving up yet.

[Kelly E]

I use wintergreen and 99% alcohol mixed 50/50.