Author Topic: Headgasket O-rings  (Read 1222 times)

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Offline lash

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Headgasket O-rings
« on: January 24, 2020, 08:43:05 AM »
Engine is a 1972 cb750k2 case with a 73-76 head I think. Gasket is a CycleX that measures 1.28 mm. Question is should I put in Orings around the studs or just where the oil passages are?
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Offline Phoenix

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Re: Headgasket O-rings
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2020, 09:12:51 AM »
Check out what H/M says about thickness of orings.  MLS gasket is thicker than standard so requires thicker orings.
Ed Spengeman
Indy
1971 CB750K1 (Stock)
1973 CB350 Twin  (Gone)

Offline lash

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Re: Headgasket O-rings
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2020, 09:28:40 AM »
Its not an MLS, just the stock one. Mark talks about the oil passage orings but I cant find where I should or shouldn’t add the other 8 rings around the studs
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Offline kmb69

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Re: Headgasket O-rings
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2020, 06:28:55 PM »
Only put the extra O-rings on if your cylinder has the knock pins to keep them from clogging the holes. Those 8 center studs are oil return passages.

Offline lash

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Re: Headgasket O-rings
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2020, 07:43:41 PM »
Only put the extra O-rings on if your cylinder has the knock pins to keep them from clogging the holes. Those 8 center studs are oil return passages.
No knock pins on those studs so that answers my question. Thanks !
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Headgasket O-rings
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2020, 12:34:49 AM »
My K2 with early cylinder but late head gasket with wider oil return holes got extra o-rings in the 8 oil return holes.
There is a Honda service bulletine about it.

The problem was a not completely flat head gasket (cheaper gasket kit) making the risk of o-rings to land under the gasket. I used a few dots sealer here and there to glue it to the head (not important gasket areas avoiding leaks). Had heavy parts to press it flat abd cure over night.

I got new o-rings a few days ago from UK. Bearing shop UK
Oil return holes 8x
ID 12.5mm, thickness 2.0 mm
(only nitrile 70 available)

Oil feed for the thicker head gaskets. Both nitrile 90 and Viton 75
ID 10.78mm, thickness 2.62mm
(Honda stock 11x 2.5)

Same company has also oil filter o-rings, 89x4.5mm for low cost( £14 for 50 pcs).

Most o-rings with the filters are too thin, maybe too soft too. I used one yesterday on my K2, felt good.

This o-ring only nitrile 70, it would be nice with a harder one like 90 too make it possible to make it to not compress too much. I tightened the filter bolt with light hand, like tightening an M8 bolt.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 12:36:35 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline lash

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Re: Headgasket O-rings
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2020, 03:35:10 AM »
I found the bulletin and think I will go with the orings on all 8. Wish I had seen that earlier..
Analog mind in a digital world..

Offline Kevin D

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Re: Headgasket O-rings
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2020, 06:23:12 AM »
Quote
Posted by: lash
« on: Today at 03:35:10 am » Insert Quote
I found the bulletin and think I will go with the orings on all 8. Wish I had seen that earlier..

Can you post a link? I looked for it last night but couldn't find it.
71 CB750 K1
105,000 miles
Original Owner
———past———
70 SL100/125/150
70 Candy BlueGreen CB 750 K0
————————————————-
Former Honda parts kid/counter kid/do all
—————————————————————-
Whether you think you can or think you can’t, you’re right
Genius is 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration

Offline lash

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Re: Headgasket O-rings
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2020, 09:25:06 AM »
Here is a crappy pic..used to be on this site as service bulletin #42 but all I get now for the bulletins is “documents not found” ?
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 09:30:58 AM by lash »
Analog mind in a digital world..

Offline PeWe

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Re: Headgasket O-rings
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2020, 12:57:32 PM »
Here the Service bulletine 42 attached as pdf  :)
Cylinder head gasket oil sealing
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Kevin D

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Re: Headgasket O-rings
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2020, 01:43:49 PM »
Thanks guys, I tried to order the special HG and o rings for my K1 in 2007 but "not available".
I ended up using a custom HG and viton xrings of the appropriate size.
71 CB750 K1
105,000 miles
Original Owner
———past———
70 SL100/125/150
70 Candy BlueGreen CB 750 K0
————————————————-
Former Honda parts kid/counter kid/do all
—————————————————————-
Whether you think you can or think you can’t, you’re right
Genius is 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration

Offline kmb69

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Re: Headgasket O-rings
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2020, 02:41:48 PM »
Only put the extra O-rings on if your cylinder has the knock pins to keep them from clogging the holes. Those 8 center studs are oil return passages.
No knock pins on those studs so that answers my question. Thanks !

I have that bulletin in my library but never read it. Sorry.
Still better be careful to get them positioned properly.
They did not add those knock pins for no reason.

Offline Kevin D

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Re: Headgasket O-rings
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2020, 05:45:57 PM »
Quote
They did not add those knock pins for no reason.

Uhoh!?? I have been lucky for these past 12 years/20000mi, but it's not the first time I have been lucky.
71 CB750 K1
105,000 miles
Original Owner
———past———
70 SL100/125/150
70 Candy BlueGreen CB 750 K0
————————————————-
Former Honda parts kid/counter kid/do all
—————————————————————-
Whether you think you can or think you can’t, you’re right
Genius is 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration

Offline PeWe

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  • Bike almost back to the 70's 2015
Re: Headgasket O-rings
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2020, 09:19:23 PM »
The knock pins came later, 1975. The bulletine inform about that and the recommendation of 8x additional o-rings when using the new head gasket with wider oil return holes on earlier cylinders with tighter holes.

The old type of gasket with smaller oil return holes still available after that.

The later gasket with o-rings must be an improvement.

I talked about this with a friend yesterday. If the head gasket is not absolutely flat, it can be pre-mounted, tighten head just a little and let it sit over night, then remove head and add the o- rings for oil return when gasket is hopefully flat, no risk getting o-rings under or over gasket, must sit inside oil return holes.

I used a little bit too thick o-rings on my K2 build, I had to retighten head nuts 3 times until it stopped compress, stop moving with same torque, 20 ft lbs.

I understood that when changing head last summer. Then used another size, now Viton 75 in imperial size 12.42x1.78mm.

I have now nitrile 70 12.5x2.0mm (8 pcs) for next build with early cylinder and late head gasket. I'll also use the thicker oil feed gaskets 10.78x 2.62mm (2pcs).

MLS
Another thread shed the light on MLS gaskets with smaller  oil return holes, smaller then the holes in the cylinder.
Thoughts that oil did not return quick enough overflowing top end and maybe flow the tops of valve guides causing smoke. I do not know how that thread ended. If grinding up the holes stopped the smoking engine.

I have various MLS gaskets, I have with smaller holes. If using that one, I'lll grind the holes to same size as the cylinder holes.
No additional o-rings used with MLS.
I used 2 o-rings for oil feed in my Billet block build just for sure since it was possible. That MLS have not the narrower oil return holes.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 09:22:51 PM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967