Topic: rear steer?

[Don R]

 Does anyone remember the DOT's attempt to improve motorcycle safety by making the rear wheel steer the bike?  The theory was that since the front wheel does a high percentage of the braking, a safer bike could be made by moving the steering to the rear wheel.
  Long story short, they spent a lot of money and no one could ride it. They never admitted it was a bad idea they concluded everyone was already trained to ride steering from the front. If they could only find a person that had never ridden anything before, they could get right on it and be fine.
  I'll have to look for a picture.

[Don R]

 Food for thought, I wonder if modern electronics could make it usable? I think Honda's self balancing bike is crazy but works so who knows? 

 https://motochassis.com/Articles/2WD_2WS/2WD_2WS.htm

[34barab]

I saw a YT video a few years ago.  Someone (with lots of spare time) thought up and built a pedal bike that steered the opposite of a standard bike.  Turn the bars left and the bike went right.  He was just about the only human that could ride it.  Hysterical to watch other people try.  As far as I know, "no humans were injured in the making of the video".

Turns out our brain has been trained so thoroughly to do it one way, it took monumental effort, and practice, to unlearn what we knew.  I guess you see a similar example of this when moto instructors try to teach the concept of counter steering.

[Tracksnblades1]

So, would one still have to initiate a left turn by first turning right.?

I've seen an old Case 4x4 tractor with crab steer slinking across a muddy field leaving 4 tracks.

Some GM pickups 2004-2005 had 4 wheel steer.

Johnny Deere riding lawn tractors still have that option on some.

[scottly]

I don't remember any such thing from the DOT?? My buddy Henry once built a two-wheel drive, front and rear steering bike, a sort of Rokon beast with an 8 HP Briggs and chevron tires that were take-offs from a quad. He expected it to be a "rock crawler" of a bike, but it would go into a death wobble at 3 MPH!! The carcass is out behind the shop rusting...

[jgger]

So, would one still have to initiate a left turn by first turning right.?

I've seen an old Case 4x4 tractor with crab steer slinking across a muddy field leaving 4 tracks.

Some GM pickups 2004-2005 had 4 wheel steer.

Johnny Deere riding lawn tractors still have that option on some.

Alot of our construction fork lifts have 4 wheel steering it really cuts down the turning radius. Plus the crab feature is very useful and fun to engage when you get off. The next guy that tries to drive it is like WTF! A rear wheel steer bike would be pretty funny to watch. I know a guy that could probably operate it, he used to sit backwards on his dirt bike and ride it. That was a good show too!

[spotty]

Honda car division built 4 wheel steer cars in the late 80s, one of the Accord models from memory
The rear wheels would only turn a reduced percentage of the fronts
It must have been hugely successful as they're still using that tech..... aren't they, maybe not

[DaveBarbier]

A few cars did all wheel steering. Prelude and 350z come to mind.

Here’s the link to the backwards bicycle.

[ofreen]

I spent last Wednesday steering some police academy Chargers with the rear. 

[34barab]

A few cars did all wheel steering. Prelude and 350z come to mind.

Here’s the link to the backwards bicycle.

Thank you

[Don R]

 I think some of the new Corvette rear ends have a tie rod hooked to the center of the frame, as the body leans it slightly steers the rear wheels. That's what made me think of it.

[dave500]

old Mack camel back rear suspension was supposed to let the rear bogie sort of steer somewhat.

[Stev-o]

A few cars did all wheel steering. Prelude and 350z come to mind.

My 370Z does not have 4 whl steering [300Z had it?]   

But years ago, I had a Mitsubishi 3000 GT VR4 and it did have this technology.

That was a great car, 300hp turbo all wheel drive [and steer] Fun!  [Now 300hp is nothing]



See demo here...

[333]

I'd point out that after a certain speed (20 or so) we don't steer our bikes.  We counter-steer them.  You can test it the next time you're out for a ride.

Get to speed (I'd suggest 35ish). Try a gentile push on one side of the handlebar. You push the right side, expecting to "steer" left, but the bike goes right. I know what you're gonna say. you push the right side and it wants to lean to the right. So try it by pulling instead.  You'll see.

Racers already know this, but most street riders don't.  And I know we've discussed this before.

[Don R]

333 I won a few bets talking about  that at lunch when I worked at the factory. 

[Tracksnblades1]

old Mack camel back rear suspension was supposed to let the rear bogie sort of steer somewhat.

Indeed,

One just just need to follow an old Mack RD dump truck while its turning.
Especially a totally worn out one. You'll see a lot of moving going on.
Hendrickson suspensions in non-Mack trucks provided the same.

[dave500]

I had a 73 r600 years ago,they had to use offset elephants feet to square it up once,the walking beam Hendrickson doesent steer as the beam keeps the axles square,its the camelbacks tendancy for one spring to expand and the other to compress that steers it as the spring holds the axles,worn soft/broken springs and you get bad sway!worn hendricksons the axles track different to the point of tyres rubbing the chassis.

[Tracksnblades1]

I had a 73 r600 years ago,they had to use offset elephants feet to square it up once,the walking beam Hendrickson doesent steer as the beam keeps the axles square,its the camelbacks tendancy for one spring to expand and the other to compress that steers it as the spring holds the axles,worn soft/broken springs and you get bad sway!worn hendricksons the axles track different to the point of tyres rubbing the chassis.

Oh,

I didn't realize that.

 Perhaps in Hendrickson's own words...?
https://www.hendrickson-intl.com/Tech-Tips/Nov-2011---Getting-Hitched

[dave500]

i drove a hendrickson equipped truck for 8 years in the garbage industry,it got re bushed bout every three years,in the mirror youd see a full tyre movement going in a straight line because of road camber,on a tight full lock turn the tyres rub the chassis once theyre this worn,we got a ten year old isuzu now we got new with 6 rod rear end,hasnt been touched yet but getting clunky on tight turns.

[DaveBarbier]

A few cars did all wheel steering. Prelude and 350z come to mind.

My 370Z does not have 4 whl steering [300Z had it?]   

But years ago, I had a Mitsubishi 3000 GT VR4 and it did have this technology.

That was a great car, 300hp turbo all wheel drive [and steer] Fun!  [Now 300hp is nothing]



See demo here...

Ahh, yes, my mistake 3000gt it was.

[DaveBarbier]

I'd point out that after a certain speed (20 or so) we don't steer our bikes.  We counter-steer them.  You can test it the next time you're out for a ride.

Get to speed (I'd suggest 35ish). Try a gentile push on one side of the handlebar. You push the right side, expecting to "steer" left, but the bike goes right. I know what you're gonna say. you push the right side and it wants to lean to the right. So try it by pulling instead.  You'll see.

Racers already know this, but most street riders don't.  And I know we've discussed this before.

Thought this was obvious.