Topic: Shoei Saddlebags installation

[Jarrett_Honda]

Does anyone have experience installing these bags on a CB750? I was able to attach it to the two bolts that go through the rear turn signals and grab rail just fine. It's the bottom support bracket that's the issue. The plan was to attach the bracket using the bolt that hold the exhaust and passenger foot pegs on. However that bolt is too big.


I suppose I could mount the bracket to the bottom bolt for the shocks but I'm thinking that would be bad if it limits the up and down movement of the swing arm.




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[BallAquatics]

DO NOT mount the bracket to the bottom bolt for the shocks.  You are correct in thinking that would be bad.

[2wheels]

I have had those saddle bags for years, 1000's of miles.  Didn't even know there was a bottom bracket.  So in my opinion it is optional.

You could add one of these since you allready have half of the bottom bracket.

[Jarrett_Honda]

I have had those saddle bags for years, 1000's of miles.  Didn't even know there was a bottom bracket.  So in my opinion it is optional.

You could add one of these since you allready have half of the bottom bracket.

That's a good ideal! I never thought about adding a clamp. I'll go to hardware store today and see what I can put together.

How heavy of a load do you carry in your bags?

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[HondaMan]

It looks like your Shoei is missing that clamp above: they originally had some like that. Most of us (including me) that have bags on these bikes also learned one more VERY IMPORTANT bracket that should be added, but must be made by your own hand: there should be a cross-brace between the backs of the bags, tied to either the taillight's upper 2 bolts (which you can get with longer shanks, from Honda) or to a new (sacrificial?) hole in the rear fender. This cross-brace stops the wobble that the wiggling bags induce to the front end when cornering with loads aboard, and became popular after Honda finally added them to the Gold Wing packages starting in 1980. If I can get a camera shot of mine, I'll post it here, but this will have to be this weekend as it is dark when I get home (so I can't get a good shot of it then). I have carried as much as 600 lbs. of payload on my 750 (in the Krauser saddlebags, Tourmaster TourPak and stuff strapped on top of it) to the Black Hills, play-racing a bit with 2-up aboard with my friends. With the cross-strapping technique, the whole bike feels solid under your butt even when loaded.

[Jarrett_Honda]

It looks like your Shoei is missing that clamp above: they originally had some like that. Most of us (including me) that have bags on these bikes also learned one more VERY IMPORTANT bracket that should be added, but must be made by your own hand: there should be a cross-brace between the backs of the bags, tied to either the taillight's upper 2 bolts (which you can get with longer shanks, from Honda) or to a new (sacrificial?) hole in the rear fender. This cross-brace stops the wobble that the wiggling bags induce to the front end when cornering with loads aboard, and became popular after Honda finally added them to the Gold Wing packages starting in 1980. If I can get a camera shot of mine, I'll post it here, but this will have to be this weekend as it is dark when I get home (so I can't get a good shot of it then). I have carried as much as 600 lbs. of payload on my 750 (in the Krauser saddlebags, Tourmaster TourPak and stuff strapped on top of it) to the Black Hills, play-racing a bit with 2-up aboard with my friends. With the cross-strapping technique, the whole bike feels solid under your butt even when loaded.

I would really appreciate the picture when you get a chance.

Thank you for the help.

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[2wheels]

That's a good ideal! I never thought about adding a clamp. I'll go to hardware store today and see what I can put together.

How heavy of a load do you carry in your bags?

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[/quote]

I carried a car style casset tape player and speakers (this was back in 1976)  that is about the heaviest.  I should also mention that i had a back rest / carrier as part of my setup.  Which may of provided some support like Honda Man mentions.  I don't have any pictures and really don't remember the details of my setup.  Except there was no bottom bracket.

[mattsz]

I, too, would like any and all mounting suggestions/photos from anyone who has mounted them.  I got a pair of Shoie bags for another bike - I thought I'd try them on my 400/4.  The "universal" brackets that came with the bags just don't seem like they'd be suitable for mounting on any bike - only two "horizontal" mounting points, for starters... no stability or weight capacity that way!

[Jarrett_Honda]

I, too, would like any and all mounting suggestions/photos from anyone who has mounted them.  I got a pair of Shoie bags for another bike - I thought I'd try them on my 400/4.  The "universal" brackets that came with the bags just don't seem like they'd be suitable for mounting on any bike - only two "horizontal" mounting points, for starters... no stability or weight capacity that way!

What do your brackets look like?

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[PeWe]

I had a slimmer setup of Shoei bags wirh chromed tubing.
The bracket with long slit was probably attached to the frame where passenger foot peg sit. The bike had 4-1 back then and easier to mount the bags.
Those bags were stable in high speeds, no bar between them.
Bike had  a luggage rack too.

[Jarrett_Honda]

That's the mounting hardware I'm working with now.

I tried to use rubber cable clamps but I got a size too big. I measured the frame tube too big. I got 3 inches with the tape measure. Going to try again tomorrow.

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[mattsz]

I, too, would like any and all mounting suggestions/photos from anyone who has mounted them.  I got a pair of Shoie bags for another bike - I thought I'd try them on my 400/4.  The "universal" brackets that came with the bags just don't seem like they'd be suitable for mounting on any bike - only two "horizontal" mounting points, for starters... no stability or weight capacity that way!

What do your brackets look like?

See attached...

[Jarrett_Honda]

I, too, would like any and all mounting suggestions/photos from anyone who has mounted them.  I got a pair of Shoie bags for another bike - I thought I'd try them on my 400/4.  The "universal" brackets that came with the bags just don't seem like they'd be suitable for mounting on any bike - only two "horizontal" mounting points, for starters... no stability or weight capacity that way!

What do your brackets look like?

See attached...

Yeah that's definitely different than what I got.

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[mattsz]

Yeah that's definitely different than what I got.

To be fair, those brackets were used to mount the bags to a different bike....

[HondaMan]

I should be able to get a picture tomorrow, I'll be home in the daylight then.

The general rules for saddlebags were originally hinted at by a German engineer I once overheard (from Krauser) when he was commenting on the Vetter bag mounts as they first appeared in a bike show: some detractors came up and wiggled (up and down) the Vetter bags on their unique (and brilliant) mounts on a GT750 (it may have been Craig's own GT750) and were laughing at them (being Harley riders). The engineer just quietly retorted, "Saddlebags SHOULD live a life of their own."

Shortly after that (1973) I got some almost-new Krausers from a wrecked new BMW R75 and had to fab my own mounts, since all that was left were the bag's frames and most of the luggage rack. The Krauser bags are a snap-in, lock-in design with a single-point capture at the rear and a relatively loose, long lip across the front vertical edge, so the bags are quite 'lively' when on rough roads. I had ridden other CB750 tourers with Bates, Shoei, and some other rigid-mount bags, but this was my first attempt at Krausers not on a BMW. When I first installed the rack, I did not have it attached to a middle-stiff mount at the rear, and even with the empty bags it had a lot of 'input' to the steering when cornering above 30 MPH. After studying the BMW mounts a little more, I discovered they have a 3-point mount for the bag's frame that included the BMW's rear hoop (behind the seat), which was why the R60, R75 and R90/S had a single hole in the end of those hoops: it was for fitting the Krauser bags' cross-struts from the back of each bag frame. The 750 needed its grab-rail removed in order to fit these bags, so that option was gone: I then made up 2 short "Z" bars to tie the back ends of the bag hoops to the front taillight mount bolts, one on each side. Instantly it felt like the bags had disappeared when I took it out for a spin: a week later, laden with more than 150 lbs of camping-fishing gear (and my 135 lb. ex) I headed out to a nearby lake for the weekend, but decided enroute to go much further because the bike felt so good. I had anticipated arm-wrestling it along the way: the 3-point mount completely changed the way the bagged bike felt. They are still there, today, and have carried as much as 90 lbs in each bag over the years. All I have done since then is to unlock and remove the bags when I get home from a trip, and have left the frames in place ever since.

[mattsz]

So HondaMan, do your bags "have a life of their own," or are they rigidly mounted?

Here's a marked-up version of my photo, and a second "in use" photo - as I said, the brackets were used to mount the bags to another bike, which I never saw in use.

The round bar pieces nest together, and so are infinitely adjustable over their length.  The green arrow shows how the angled piece inserts and slides into the straight piece.  The "Z" bracket clamps onto the straight piece at the blue circle - but it doesn't "pinch" the angled piece tight, so the nested pieces aren't ever rigidly connected. {EDIT: the blue circle on the bar isn't in the right place - the "Z" bracket actually attaches closer to the middle of the straight bar, as seen in the second photo}

The green numbers show where the bars attach to the bags.  Point "1" is only a bag-bar connection, it doesn't connect to the bike here.  Point "2" connects the bag and bar, but also attaches to the bike here (red cross).  The "Z" bracket also attaches to the bike, roughly in the location of the "middle" red cross.

The two red crosses are the only bike mounting points.  Lower locations "3" and "4" (in red) do not attach to anything.

The second photo shows (not very well) the mounting scheme - when mounted in this fashion, these bags really have a life of their own!

[HondaMan]

Sorry, I couldn't get the picture today: we got almost 18" of snow since midnight (and it's still snowing). I'll try to take it in the AM when I dig out the cars...

[Jarrett_Honda]

Sorry, I couldn't get the picture today: we got almost 18" of snow since midnight (and it's still snowing). I'll try to take it in the AM when I dig out the cars...

No rush. Its snowing here too so I won't be riding for some time.

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[Jarrett_Honda]

Just waiting on the 7/8 P clamps to arrive to attach the bottom brackets.

I also need to repair the broken wiring for the read tail lights and turn signals. Those wires would be 16 AWG correct?

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[mattsz]

I'm not in a rush either - we've had a storm here (not sure where you guys are, but it might be the same storm), but it's mostly ice.  I had to scrape a 1/8" layer of solid clear ice off my car yesterday to get to work, and I suspect there will be more today.  Lots of cars off the roads and power outages.  I put my bike(s) to bed for the winter here in Maine...

Just some random thoughts:

Jarrett_Honda, thanks for the pic!  I can see how a brace across the back connecting the bags together, if not to the fender as well, would help.  That's a long bracket shown in your first photo - I'm curious to know how you (or anyone else) utilize the lower points (red numbers 3 and 4 in my photo) for frame mounting.

It appears that the lights on my bags have never been used.  The yellow lenses are there, but there are no light sockets, no wires, and no evidence that there were ever any mounted.  I looked for markings where the sockets go, I looked for a place where a wire (or two) might have passed through the bags to connect to the bike... nothing.  So if anyone can share any photos or info concerning the lighting hardware and wiring, I'd be very interested as I'd like to light them up!

I had an old BMW with Wixom bags - they had an "easy-off-easy-on" mounting scheme - unplug one electric wire, lift two ends of a little locking rod, and pull the bag right off the bracket.  It doesn't look like something similar will be possible here.  (That Wixom system was pretty secure - I know this because I know that the guy I sold the bike to brushed up hard against a car bumper in traffic... the mountings held fine; most of the bag got ripped right off the bike instead!    The inner side, where the mounts were holding it, stayed on the bike.  I attached a photo, just for "fun"...)

Shoei USA not only has no historical records of sales or production of these bags, but they have no interest them, either.  I think if I were involved, I'd be very interested in collecting information about these old accessories my company used to make.  Oh well...

[HondaMan]

Here's the pix.
In the first one, you can see the forward brackets I added. The tops of these brackets go to the front screws of the luggage rack where it meets the upright mounts.
The second one shows the lower mount to the frame's passenger footpeg triangle. This one is flexible, to a point.
The last one shows the cross-the-back bracket that ties the rear of the frame across the bike and stabilizes it on the taillight's lower foot bolts.

This is how it has looked since 1983.

[HondaMan]

Just waiting on the 7/8 P clamps to arrive to attach the bottom brackets.

I also need to repair the broken wiring for the read tail lights and turn signals. Those wires would be 16 AWG correct?

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20 AWG is plenty.

[mattsz]

Thanks HondaMan - that Krauser hardware looks sturdy!  Interesting that it's made in "West germany," rather than "West Germany"...

I have the additional challenge of the inexplicable swing-arm-mounted passenger foot pegs, so not much to mount to on the left side down low.  The right side exhaust hanger frame loop might be useful, though...

[HondaMan]

So HondaMan, do your bags "have a life of their own," or are they rigidly mounted?

While mine look rigidly mounted, they are very 'lively' on their own while riding. The reasons: the frame itself is made from cast aluminum, which is rigid as can be, but the lower arms flex in and out as the bike accelerates toward the (loaded) bag or away from it, like when diving into a corner or recovering hard from one. The whole assembly pivots centrally around the upper taillight mount, which is pretty rigidly mounted to the centerline of the bike, on the top of the taillight (extra-long shoulder) bolts. The fender is rigidly mounted, so this is a 'hard point' reference for the whole bag and tail trunk. The crossarm that ties to the taillight (at the license plate area) floats with the bags as a whole because the taillight is rubber-mounted.

By hand, I can shift the entire frame over 1" off to either side by pushing (hard) on it at the bottoms of the bag frames, and it immediately re-centers itself after. It essentially rotates around the upper taillight mount, in a conical pattern, with the lower end of the bag racks moving almost 3" total side-to-side. This is similar to the uber-successful Vetter bag system that came out about a year after I mounted mine: my brother had the entire Vetter fairing-bags-tourpak setup on his CB650-4 and loved it. He said he could carry more than 80 lbs in the 2 bags, leaving the tourpak for quick-access stuff like storing his jacket or pistol when on the road.

Back in the days when I used to lead rider groups through the mountains (we used to have informal 'bike clubs' with the various churches around here in the 1980s), the ones behind me often commented (or asked) about how "wiggly your saddlebags are", etc. Their opinions usually were that 'it must make it hard to hold a line', or the like: then I would have to explain it all. Again.

[Jarrett_Honda]

Thank you for the pictures. I'm going to see what I can do about making a bracket. Since i don't have a tool I'm going to have to visit a welding shop to see if they can craft something for me.


I also just realized that I can't open my seat for anything with the bags attached. At least not with the right side.

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