Author Topic: F2/F3 oil filter "collar" or spacer - do I need this?  (Read 1381 times)

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Offline fxef79

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F2/F3 oil filter "collar" or spacer - do I need this?
« on: March 05, 2020, 07:50:36 PM »
Be gentle - I'm a complete newbie to the Honda CB world.

Just acquired a custom trike that has a CB750 K2 engine in it (based on the engine serial number).

So I've been going through the basic checks.  Tonight I dropped the oil pan and oil filter cover in order to inspect, clean, and to put a new filter in.

Imagine my surprise as I take off the oil filter cover, and an additional hunk of aluminum comes off the front of the engine with it. Wasn't expecting it... nothing like that in any of the CB750K parts diagrams.  It took me a bit of research to figure out what this is... it appears the PO put on the F2/F3 oil filter assembly, including the additional "oil cooler", which I describe as a finned spacer that is between the cases and the "outer" oil filter cover.  It has the longer bolt to account for this "spacer".

As I went through parts diagrams to figure this out, I've determined I appear to be missing two parts.  First is the skinny washer that goes between the spring and the filter.  I actually found a washer in my random bin of washers that fits, so I think I'm OK for that... can't imagine that part is particularly sensitive to very exact specs - this one fits, and does what it would seem to need to do, which is give a nice flat surface to mate to the rubber on the filter, rather than the relatively skinny spring digging into it.  I've also read that a lot of bikes are missing this anyway, since it tends to get thrown out as it's often stuck to the filter.

But the other part I'm missing is described as COLLAR, OIL FILTER BOLT.  Part # 423-333-000.
Best I can figure, this item is present mainly to center the bolt in the oil cooler spacer.  The hole in the center of the cooler/spacer is much bigger than the bolt.  Without this "collar" it would be pretty hard to ensure the oil cooler is centered and gets a good seal on the engine case.  I suppose it might also hold the filter tight against the spring.  Photos I've seen of this collar show it fits right into that opening.  Here's a good example - the oil cooler and the collar together:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-CB-750-K-FOUR-1969-76-OIL-COOLER-HEAT-SINK-PLATE-SPACER-DRAG-CHOPPER-RACE/402136700432?hash=item5da1371610:g:1LcAAOSwwaVeXtBP

Here's the odd part - On the engine case itself there seems to be a "boss" that protrudes, on which the oil cooler ring centers perfectly.  It seems THAT would be the collar... but unless it's just REALLY stuck on, it seems to be part of the engine case.

So what I need to know - someone with an F2 or F3... can you tell me if your case has that protruding boss?  If so, do you have that AND this collar?  Can you give me the measurements (length, I.D. and O.D.)?  It would seem I need to find or make one of these.  That said, I don't actually know how this would work...  It seems that combining that collar with the boss would press to filter WAY too far into the filter cover, completely compressing the spring, and thus covering the "bypass" holes at the top of the bolt.

FWIW, The only place I've found to buy this collar is a repro from Germany.

Oh... this same collar appears to be a part on the CB350, as well, although the CB350 doesn't have the additional finned oil coller ring.

Offline fxef79

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Re: F2/F3 oil filter "collar" or spacer - do I need this?
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2020, 07:52:27 PM »
I'll happily take and share some pics, if that helps.

Offline Stev-o

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Re: F2/F3 oil filter "collar" or spacer - do I need this?
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2020, 08:31:22 PM »
No, you dont need it.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline danyo

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Re: F2/F3 oil filter "collar" or spacer - do I need this?
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2020, 08:33:17 PM »
I don't really see the need for this cooler in your k2 motor. You want to keep it? Just buy new oil filter bolt and you are ready to go.

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Offline fxef79

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Re: F2/F3 oil filter "collar" or spacer - do I need this?
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2020, 08:42:28 PM »
I don't really see the need for this cooler in your k2 motor. You want to keep it? Just buy new oil filter bolt and you are ready to go.

I don't really see the "need" for it, either.  Then again, I don't see the need to go hunt down proper K2 bolt and filter cover just to replace it.  Not sure what you mean about buying a new oil filter bolt... the oil filter bolt I have is the right length for it.  Are you saying this finned cooler "spacer" could be taken off and mount this F2 filter cover straight to the case with a different bolt?

Offline danyo

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Re: F2/F3 oil filter "collar" or spacer - do I need this?
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2020, 08:48:18 PM »
Exactly, you said now it has longer bolt. There are reproduction bolts availiable in proper lenght for your oil filter cover. I'm pretty sure filter cover is the same on all cb750s. May be black if it's from f3 but dimensions are the same.

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Offline fxef79

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Re: F2/F3 oil filter "collar" or spacer - do I need this?
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2020, 09:02:17 PM »
Exactly, you said now it has longer bolt. There are reproduction bolts availiable in proper lenght for your oil filter cover. I'm pretty sure filter cover is the same on all cb750s. May be black if it's from f3 but dimensions are the same.

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Gotcha - The filter cover seemed to be different part numbers when I cross referenced to K2 parts diagram, but I know that doesn't necessarily mean they're not interchangeable.

I guess it's kind of "6 of one or half a dozen of another"... either I buy a repro shorter oil filter bolt, or I buy/make a repro collar.

Unless, of course, that boss on the engine (maybe it's just the collar that's stuck on there?) makes the collar redundant?

« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 09:08:41 PM by fxef79 »

Offline danyo

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Re: F2/F3 oil filter "collar" or spacer - do I need this?
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2020, 09:11:53 PM »
You can provide some pictures to confirm but all cases have that boss with threads so you can screw in filter bolt. Collar will not have any threads and should be easy to recognize if stuck to case. Probably you missing it so in my opinion it will be easier to buy new filter bolt then proper collar. I do have spare filter bolt but it was chromed at some point and bypass valve inside is stuck. I dint try to free it up.

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« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 09:14:26 PM by danyo »


Offline danyo

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Re: F2/F3 oil filter "collar" or spacer - do I need this?
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2020, 09:29:54 PM »
https://4into1.com/honda-kawasaki-oil-filter-bolt-cb400-500-550-750-900-1100-cbx-gl1000-1100-1200/



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Good reviews but it will have 17mm head not 12 like original. Be careful to not overtigh and crack the filter cover.

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Offline 70CB750

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Re: F2/F3 oil filter "collar" or spacer - do I need this?
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2020, 03:33:56 AM »
Every oil change I promise myself I will leave it out next time  ;D

It's such a pain.
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Offline fxef79

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Re: F2/F3 oil filter "collar" or spacer - do I need this?
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2020, 05:57:01 AM »
You can provide some pictures to confirm but all cases have that boss with threads so you can screw in filter bolt. Collar will not have any threads and should be easy to recognize if stuck to case. Probably you missing it so in my opinion it will be easier to buy new filter bolt then proper collar. I do have spare filter bolt but it was chromed at some point and bypass valve inside is stuck. I dint try to free it up.

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Perfect explanation, thank you.  I got to thinking about it last night and realized that "boss" is threaded - it's where the bolt threads in, after all.  So clearly that's not the collar stuck on there.

Then again, If I were to put an additional collar in there it seems it would really push the filter so deep into the filter cover so as to cover the bypass holes.

I think a shorter bolt might be in order...

Offline fxef79

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Re: F2/F3 oil filter "collar" or spacer - do I need this?
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2020, 05:57:35 AM »
https://4into1.com/honda-kawasaki-oil-filter-bolt-cb400-500-550-750-900-1100-cbx-gl1000-1100-1200/



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Good reviews but it will have 17mm head not 12 like original. Be careful to not overtigh and crack the filter cover.

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The on one there now is 17mm head.

Offline fxef79

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Re: F2/F3 oil filter "collar" or spacer - do I need this?
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2020, 06:01:36 AM »
What's the chances anyone can tell me the length of that "collar?


Offline danyo

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Re: F2/F3 oil filter "collar" or spacer - do I need this?
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2020, 06:13:44 AM »
I can't help with this, I'm a more K guy, not F.

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