Author Topic: Melted Battery m-unit Helpl.  (Read 1939 times)

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Offline Bastaldo

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Melted Battery m-unit Helpl.
« on: March 10, 2020, 06:33:45 AM »
Hey all- this one has me confused. CB550 project bike. All LED lights, m-unit (the original), kick start, antigravity battery in a box that sits on top of the swing arm, year old Rick's R/R for lithium, with a brand new top-end rebuild and brand new harness. Over the last three days 3 batteries have died, and on the last one, the casing melted off.

Here is what happened.

Got the bike back last week, easy kick over and riding. Drove it to work and when I finished for the day the battery was totally dead. I figured I had left the ignition on when I pulled the keys. Had a spare that I attached, road it home no problem. Parked it, and the next day, the battery is dead. Again, figured I was a dummy and turn the key the wrong way. Got a new antigravity over the weekend and road it yesterday to work, no problem. Left work, kicked right over and was riding home and about 15 mins in, the whole bike just turned off ( i was in traffic for a lot of the time but was moving). Battery was dead- not even giving a reading. Pushed it home- which was fun- and threw the battery on a trickle charger. Came back a couple hrs later and realize it wasn't taking the charge. Pulled the battery and the plastic casing was oozing off the back and puddling in the battery box. After I stopped freaking out that there was battery ooze all over me, i tossed the battery in the garbage at the end of my driveway.

These could all be related events, or a couple of non-related events.

1. the dead batteries (especially the first two), could be from turning the ignition key the wrong way OR from the tricky M-unit parking lights or wiring. Turn signals and horn are controlled by a corresponding three momentary button unit, and the headlight is controlled by it's own one momentary push button  (one is lo, two is high). I don't think this is what killed the battery the third time because I don't see how it would have kicked over and ridden if the battery was drained. also, i read the posts on the forum about the parking lights, and while I turn off the bike when the lights are in LO, i haven't even used the HI.

2. the heat from the engine or vibrations destroyed the third battery. The thing is that neither of the first two batteries did anything like this/ for about 2 years the batter was under the swing arm, in the same box, without anything similar happening.

3. The third battery somehow overloaded with a dead short. Whole the battery top is exposed in the space between the seat and swing arm, but i don't see how anything could have bridged the polls.

4. the melted battery was a different event then the dead battery... meaning, it was lemon or i someone dead shorted when i put on the trickle charger. still doesn't explain the first two batteries or why the third kicked over and road fine for 15 mins.

I'm stuck with the antigravity b/c the box fits it perfectly. I looked at the shorai and it's a touch too big. So i ordered a new one that'll come today. I also ordered some foam that I'll put under the the battery.

I plan on testing the charging system to see if the RR is bunk- but i don't see how that's possible b/c it's like a year old.

One weird thing was, at some point (no idea which battery), i was getting a 13 v reading off of the battery even when the ignition was off. no lights on the m-unit besides the flashing alarm light. I had the multimeter on the positive and neg terminals, and then again on the positive and grounded terminals.

Would love some thoughts that I can test out.

Offline calj737

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Re: Melted Battery m-unit Helpl.
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2020, 06:56:36 AM »
As soon as you install it, check the voltage at the battery with engine off. It should be ~13.2 fully charged. Then start the motor, check voltage again at battery. Rev engine to 5,000 and check once more. You should never see more than 14.4v with the engine at full load. If you do, you will kill those AG batteries.

Lithium batteries have a different charge curve, hence the Rick's change to lithium compatible. It is also not impossible that unit (Rick's) has gone toast.
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Offline samm_j2

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Re: Melted Battery m-unit Helpl.
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2020, 09:20:49 AM »
I had a similar issue happen to me. munit, Rick's reg/rec for lithium, 8 call antigravity battery.

make sure your horn is connected and working as it serves a warning for when the munit sees too much voltage. I am sure you as already know all this.

my experience seemed just as baffling.

I was rising home, horn went nuts but I was almost home. wrong move. bike died battery melted. the strange thing was I had a fuse to protect the battery amd the munit in just this case. fuse didnt blow but munit and battery were fried. tested stator and it was in good working order amd could not figure out what happened other than the reg/rec failed. replaced the reg/rec and everything is working as it should.

since this happened I have also bought a battery monitoring system so that I can check the voltage, state of charge, and cracking whenever.

Offline Bastaldo

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Re: Melted Battery m-unit Helpl.
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2020, 09:47:33 AM »
This very interesting b/c the horn just died the other day before all of this. What is the horn supposed to do? I know in the past, if it honked when turning off, the battery was still drawing power. Are you saying that it would do something else if it was on? I also have an inline fuse between the m-unit and the battery that was fine.

so, in your case, the RR failed and overcharged the battery?

What type of battery monitoring system did you get? seems like a great investment.

Offline calj737

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Re: Melted Battery m-unit Helpl.
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2020, 10:34:38 AM »
The stock configuration of the mUnit will honk 2x when the ignition is disabled if the battery voltage is reading too low.
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Offline samm_j2

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Re: Melted Battery m-unit Helpl.
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2020, 11:47:51 AM »
yes you want to make sure the horn is in working order so if the munit sees too much voltage the horn will start to sound on it's own for two reasons. 1. to let you know the voltage is too high amd the munit will soon be damage and 2. to try to dissipate some of the excess voltage.

and yes it would appear that the reg/rec failed and the batter not only over charged but had too high of a voltage for too long.

antigravity has battery monitors that are inexpensive and sync to your phone via bluetooth. after having the battery melt I got one for each bike I have as they both have lithium batteries.


Offline calj737

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Re: Melted Battery m-unit Helpl.
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2020, 12:21:32 PM »
Horn beeps due to voltage too low, not too high. Batteries “melt” due to overcharging usually, again too high a voltage.

Best to perform a qualitative analysis of your charging system.
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Offline Bastaldo

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Re: Melted Battery m-unit Helpl.
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2020, 01:24:25 PM »
Is this correct? The m-unit beeps the horn for two reasons. 1. To let you know the ignition is still on when you turn the key 'off'; and, 2) it will wail if the voltage to the battery is too low.

It sounds like there are two possible situations, but in either case I need to test the charging system R/R with a new battery.

 Either bike was overcharging the battery, hence why it shut off and melted.

Or the battery was being undercharged (all three were) and shut off. Then it was so low that when I put it on the tender it melted... even though I used a charger with an option for lithium batters.

Offline Bastaldo

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Re: Melted Battery m-unit Helpl.
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2020, 05:56:19 PM »
Update: I put in a New battery, prodded the m unit and checked charging.

- when probing the m-unit with the ignition turned to off (or aux... the forward key turn), the three upper right slots on the original m-unit (or V2,maybe) read over 12 volts on the horn, start (which has no wire attached) and the R signal..... none of the momentary switches were pressed. I imagine that’s a significant voltage leak, but how is it making through the m-unit when the lock is disengaged?

- bike off, the battery reads a little over 13v. At idle it’s around 12.4-12.9. At first I rev’ed it (don’t have a tak) and it went to about 13. I let it drop back down to idle and it fell to about 10. Then as I reved it it went up and dow as low as 6 to up to 10, all while under load.

Needless to  say I’m totally confused

Offline samm_j2

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Re: Melted Battery m-unit Helpl.
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2020, 06:09:50 PM »
calj737 has a photo of an munit for his bio pic so I am sure he knows more than me. I am positive that the horn goes off nom stop when voltage is too high, I am not talking about a beeping when you turn the key I am talking blaring lime you are holding it down pissed at a car that cut you off.

have you tested your stator?

there is a big advantage to the munit blue as you cam check and see everything via the phone it is connected to.

Offline wmarcy

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Re: Melted Battery m-unit Helpl.
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2020, 06:57:03 PM »
Horn beeps due to voltage too low, not too high. Batteries “melt” due to overcharging usually, again too high a voltage.

Best to perform a qualitative analysis of your charging system.

With the munit, it will try to get rid of excess charge by sounding the horn. 

Offline scottly

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Re: Melted Battery m-unit Helpl.
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2020, 07:49:19 PM »
The third battery probably melted down from over-charging from the "trickle charger": once a lithium battery is replenished, the voltage will rapidly rise even with a small amount of current. You can use an unregulated trickle charger, but you MUST constantly monitor the voltage and shut it off once the voltage gets to 14.4 or so; it can go from 14.0 to 15.0 within seconds, depending on the charger.
It sounds like your charging system is not working, but it's not clear if there is excessive draw from the m-unit. You ran the first battery for 2 years with no problems with the same setup?
Also, disconnect the battery when not actively trouble-shooting.
PS Shorai has a small case version.
   
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 07:51:39 PM by scottly »
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Offline calj737

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Re: Melted Battery m-unit Helpl.
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2020, 09:42:26 PM »
It’s not the stator.... ::)

Perform a diligent examination of the charging system AT THE BATTERY directly with a known, good, fully charged battery. And read Scottly’s post above.
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Offline Bastaldo

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Re: Melted Battery m-unit Helpl.
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2020, 05:05:05 AM »
Re the charger- I was also thinking that but I’ve never had a problem with the charger on previous batteries and it has a setting for lithium batteries- not sure if that changes your calculus. 

Note above I got weird readings which the new battery and there seems to be a significant voltage leak on the m-unit. 

Offline Bastaldo

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Re: Melted Battery m-unit Helpl.
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2020, 12:55:24 PM »
For m-unit users this is what customer support told me about a leaky m-unit. I also just ordered a new RR and I hope that’ll be the end of all of this.

“are these outputs switched ON and the LED is ON? I guess not.

Please don't use a voltmeter to check the outputs. It is all semiconductors.
The only option to check if an output is switched ON or OFF is when you connect a load like a bulb, a turn signal or the rear light.

And if there would be a current drain at the output you could measure it also between m.unit and battery.”