Author Topic: Oh dear ...  (Read 44329 times)

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #325 on: June 25, 2024, 08:18:44 PM »
There is a crack in one of the liners, has pushed part of the liner out of the cylinder, never seen this before.




That sandcast I just did had one of those liners. I think it was #3. It was cracked at the top flange, so it curved up over the deck of the cylinders, just about 3/4" long. The rest of the sleeves weren't much better, but we re-sleeved it OK.

I've not seen oil-scraping methods like the ones in this Square Four engine, though. That open section under the ring and the hole + slot across the skirt is something I've never seen before(!). But then, oil in those days wasn't something to remember, either. :(
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Offline Mark1976

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #326 on: June 26, 2024, 03:53:46 AM »
The rings are stuck on two pistons, won't move, seen this many times.


   They look like old flathead or tractor pistons with the expansion slot in the exhaust side, gotta love "old" high tech. Better yet, just "old tech ". The 2 on the right look to have been very hot.
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Offline Stev-o

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #327 on: June 26, 2024, 07:02:41 AM »
Are parts readily available?  Cylinder lining and rings??
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline 69cb750

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #328 on: June 26, 2024, 09:50:31 AM »
Quote
That sandcast I just did had one of those liners. I think it was #3. It was cracked at the top flange, so it curved up over the deck of the cylinders, just about 3/4" long. The rest of the sleeves weren't much better, but we re-sleeved it OK.
I have only seen this one time, do not know the cause.


Quote
I've not seen oil-scraping methods like the ones in this Square Four engine, though. That open section under the ring and the hole + slot across the skirt is something I've never seen before(!). But then, oil in those days wasn't something to remember, either.
Indian pistons from the 30's and 40's have a slot in the skirt.


Quote
They look like old flathead or tractor pistons with the expansion slot in the exhaust side, gotta love "old" high tech. Better yet, just "old tech ". The 2 on the right look to have been very hot.
Old tech is the best tech, back to the way it was.
Ole sparky setting a fire 2000 times a minute makes the piston hot.


Quote
Are parts readily available?  Cylinder lining and rings??
Mostly available, somewhat expensive.
I have a small dilemma, my pistons are .020" over and fit the cylinders nicely, the only .020" pistons are in Australia.
I am suddenly motivated to get the old rings out of the pistons, going to soak in penetrating oil two days, next stop machine shop, hopefully not needed.


Offline 69cb750

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #329 on: June 26, 2024, 09:52:52 AM »
A tale of two pistons.



Offline 69cb750

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #330 on: June 26, 2024, 09:53:38 AM »


Offline grcamna2

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #331 on: June 26, 2024, 07:46:35 PM »
Would be handy if you were able to repair that top part of the liner that's cracked..  ::)
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
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Offline 69cb750

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #332 on: June 27, 2024, 04:14:39 AM »
Quote
Would be handy if you were able to repair that top part of the liner that's cracked
Ordered new liner, working on removing old rings ...

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #333 on: June 27, 2024, 02:08:46 PM »
Quote
Would be handy if you were able to repair that top part of the liner that's cracked
Ordered new liner, working on removing old rings ...

 ;) :)
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline Ichiban 4

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #334 on: June 28, 2024, 11:32:44 AM »
RE: the Square Four piston thing..
If memory serves me here [pls remember it's been over 60 years now LOL] those 'scraper grooves and the rings that go in them were pretty common on most engines of the period..1930's through 1960's.  They simply keep accumulated carbon deposits from building-up on the cylinders..especially at the bottom of the piston stroke..I believe was the rationale for having them.  Never had any problem with them..but have to remember that we didn't get the kind of mileage that we do today on our bikes and cars back then.

The pistons and liners should be available today.  Some of those old Square Fours are still being restored and rebuilt/overhauled now.  But as 69CB mentioned..they're probably quite expensive now.  You could just replace the liner that's cracked tho.  Assuming all the other liners are okay spec-wise..a new set of rings and a good hone-job on the sleeves should be sufficient [probably have to have that one replaced sleeve bored out to fit the piston 69CB..especially if the old ones are oversized]

Those are some of my suggestions from having gone through this engine rebuilding with my own square Four years ago guys.  One last thing I'd suggest after you get all the machine work done..et al..is to pay attention to the tuning of the carb [assuming you'll be rebuilding that too].Even tho my Mark II had an SU on it..rather than the Solex you have..the tuning can get out-of-whack on those things [mainly the rear 2 cylinders fire lean compared with the front 2 cylinders.  So the air-fuel mixture has to be "right-on" for the engine to run smoothly..
Okay?

Hope this helps in getting your Square Four back on the road..

Cheers

Al/Ichi
Al Summers

Present: '77 550K
Past: '73 CB450(twin), '72 CB175, '68 CB350, '58 Ariel Square 4 (1000cc), '58 Matchless Typhoon (650cc single), Whizzer Motorbikes '48 -'55 (Pacemaker & Sportsman)..Vespa, Lambretta scooters..etc.

Offline 69cb750

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #335 on: June 30, 2024, 06:11:01 AM »


Offline 69cb750

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #336 on: June 30, 2024, 06:11:46 AM »


Offline RAFster122s

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #337 on: June 30, 2024, 03:27:25 PM »
Good job on the rebuild
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #338 on: June 30, 2024, 03:33:31 PM »
Nice looming! Do you have a weaver?
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline 69cb750

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #339 on: July 01, 2024, 04:01:56 AM »
Quote
Good job on the rebuild
Repairs underway, waiting for parts, will post photos.


Quote
Nice looming! Do you have a weaver?
Very nice reproduction harness

Offline jakec

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #340 on: July 10, 2024, 09:39:44 AM »
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline 69cb750

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #341 on: July 10, 2024, 06:18:27 PM »
Quote
Do this one next
No thanks, that poor bike.

Offline 69cb750

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #342 on: July 10, 2024, 06:19:14 PM »
Cylinder liners



Offline 69cb750

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #343 on: July 10, 2024, 06:20:04 PM »



Offline grcamna2

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #344 on: July 10, 2024, 07:30:05 PM »
Your reply #342 shows the 4 pistons;two of them have a raised 'button' type dome? and the other two don't  ???
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
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Offline 69cb750

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #345 on: July 11, 2024, 04:09:48 AM »
Quote
Your reply #342 shows the 4 pistons; two of them have a raised 'button' type dome? and the other two don't
Yes, I now have two sets of pistons.
I was informed the domed pistons are "hotrod" pistons which can cause the head gasket to fail.
I had a chance to buy one new and three used .020" pistons from the protype parts company while I was still trying to get the rings out of the domed pistons so I did.
I tried heat, cold, penetrating oil, hitting both ends of the rings with a small punch for an hour none of which worked.
My machine shop was able to machine the old rings out of the grooves, the guy is a genius.
So perhaps there is another protype is in the future.

Offline 69cb750

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #346 on: July 16, 2024, 07:40:20 AM »
New cam follower and rod bearings, replaces damaged parts.
New liner installed in cylinder and honed, making progress.



Offline 69cb750

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #347 on: July 16, 2024, 07:41:03 AM »


Offline 69cb750

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #348 on: July 21, 2024, 07:12:13 AM »
One rod had scrape marks in bearing, replaced, clearance .001"
Assembling lower end Saturday.
Rod with new bearings spins free, other rods bind on crank.
Leaving your bike sit in a Nebraska barn for 62 years is bad for bearings.



Offline 69cb750

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Re: Oh dear ...
« Reply #349 on: July 21, 2024, 07:14:21 AM »
Voltage regulator connectors.
Strip wire, push through fiber board, push through connector (original), bend wire over.