Topic: How has your life changed?

[carnivorous chicken]

Yeah Giuliani and Solomon are great..

Still don't see the difference.

It's because there aren't any. Basically in other countries most have been exposed and virus has run it's course.  The WHO is nothing but a mouthpiece for the Chinese government.

Well I guess you need to explain yourself better.

Simply for the sake of argument, and because it's actually pretty funny and sad at the same time, name any country that has successfully reduced its C19 infection rate where thousands of people have stormed capital buildings with guns, refusing to take precations such as wearing a mask? Where people ignored common sense and continued to gather on beaches and in bars as the infection raged and the number of infections spiked? Do you honestly think those things happened in countries that successfully reduced their infection rates to negligible?

At this point, it's clear you don't have much of an idea of what you are talking about.

[carnivorous chicken]

Chicken...how about you tell us what you see in Mexico City?  And come on...be honest.  Pretty sure you are not living in an adobe hut around the corner from the taco stand/whore house with some guy with a big moustache and no shoes playing the guitar on the front porch.  Maybe that will prove how we are all such idiotic americans for not instantly biting at the media bate that I am sure you would even have to agree is largely garbage on a hook.

While I admire your willingness to reduce Mexico City to ugly stereotypes, as I mentioned Mexico has its own problems with reducing infection rates partly due to poor leadership, partly due to ignorance, and partly due to poverty.

What I see in Mexico City are poorer neighborhoods devastated by the virus, where there is little safety net for people who are in the informal economy. What is heartening is that businesses require masks and distancing, and enforce it, and nobody complains -- although you see plenty of teenage boys proving how tough they are by wearing their masks around their chins. I also see premature reopening of restaurants and other businesses that will likely contribute to the spread of the virus. I see long lines of people for the clinic around the corner from my adobe hut, I mean house, that wind down the block and lines at hospitals because they are overwhelmed with patients and can't handle the numbers. People die in hallways and outside of hospitals. I don't see my friends at all, because I am trying to stay safe. I don't go to bars, I don't go out to see music, I don't go for walks in the plaza with my wife because I am trying to stay safe.

It sucks. It sucks for everyone, world-wide. But refusing to believe its real or that it has consequences or to take precautions is only prolonging the suckiness. The predictions made by experts have come to be true. The predictions made by pundits with agendas have proved to be false. Who you continue to listen to is up to you.

[seanbarney41]

Great job, Chicken.  So very righteous and the absolute correct thing to do.  Good thing you are not a bartender, or a musician, or a production worker at an essential business so you can stay home with the wife and that growing little germ free treasure.  And thanks so much for all your continuing research that doesn't really make a damn bit of difference to any of the above because they still gotta go out and make that bacon, the poor dirty idiots.  Hopefully, your little one will grow up to learn the mysterious ways, of that most honest and truthful profession, the Doctor!

[seanbarney41]

ok...that may have been too hurtful.  I am sorry for that post Chicken.  I am just in one of those moods today

[carnivorous chicken]

ok...that may have been too hurtful.  I am sorry for that post Chicken.  I am just in one of those moods today

Yeah, seriously. Making nasty comments about my unborn son? Racist tropes? Check yourself, chief.

You know very little about me or where I came from.

Like I said, it sucks. It sucks for me, sucks for you, sucks for everyone. Don't take your issues out on me. Try to get informed and don't write off expertise in the middle of a global pandemic. It's the smart thing to do.

[maxheadflow]

Yeah Giuliani and Solomon are great..

Still don't see the difference.

It's because there aren't any. Basically in other countries most have been exposed and virus has run it's course.  The WHO is nothing but a mouthpiece for the Chinese government.

Well I guess you need to explain yourself better.

Simply for the sake of argument, and because it's actually pretty funny and sad at the same time, name any country that has successfully reduced its C19 infection rate where thousands of people have stormed capital buildings with guns, refusing to take precations such as wearing a mask? Where people ignored common sense and continued to gather on beaches and in bars as the infection raged and the number of infections spiked? Do you honestly think those things happened in countries that successfully reduced their infection rates to negligible?

At this point, it's clear you don't have much of an idea of what you are talking about.

Not sure what your attraction is to guns. I know that there was one case guns showed up at Michigan State Capitol but they covered their faces.

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/14/855918852/heavily-armed-protesters-gather-again-at-michigans-capitol-denouncing-home-order

If anything Liberal Governors and Mayors are helping the spread by allowing Floyd protesters to gather and destroy stuff.

What about this?

https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-the-countries-that-have-not-imposed-lockdown-and-why-6389003/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity.html

[carnivorous chicken]

Yeah Giuliani and Solomon are great..

Still don't see the difference.

It's because there aren't any. Basically in other countries most have been exposed and virus has run it's course.  The WHO is nothing but a mouthpiece for the Chinese government.

Well I guess you need to explain yourself better.

Simply for the sake of argument, and because it's actually pretty funny and sad at the same time, name any country that has successfully reduced its C19 infection rate where thousands of people have stormed capital buildings with guns, refusing to take precations such as wearing a mask? Where people ignored common sense and continued to gather on beaches and in bars as the infection raged and the number of infections spiked? Do you honestly think those things happened in countries that successfully reduced their infection rates to negligible?

At this point, it's clear you don't have much of an idea of what you are talking about.

Not sure what your attraction is to guns. I know that there was one case guns showed up at Michigan State Capitol but they covered their faces.

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/14/855918852/heavily-armed-protesters-gather-again-at-michigans-capitol-denouncing-home-order

If anything Liberal Governors and Mayors are helping the spread by allowing Floyd protesters to gather and destroy stuff. And "liberal mayors and governors"

What about this?

https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-the-countries-that-have-not-imposed-lockdown-and-why-6389003/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity.html

No fascination with guns -- although this is like shooting fish in a barrel!

One search showed one picture of two guys at a capital with masks on. Kudos! Try a google image search on "armed men storm capitals" and you will see tons of photos of guys without masks. But let's not change the subject -- we are talking about American exceptionalism, no? Any other country with armed protests against closures and wearing masks and where a large portion of the population refuses to do the bare minimum to keep that virus at bay that has successfully lowered infection rates to negligible? We both know the answer. No. It's futile to keep grasping at straws about this, or saying that the infection has simply "run its course" in these places when clearly they took it more seriously than the USA.

The people who are outside protesting police murdering Blacks at disproportionate rates are generally wearing masks. Try another google image search.

Regarding countries that didn't lockdown, you posted some great articles about Sweden -- from April. Have you read recent reports out of Sweden? It has been a compete disaster, with much higher infection and death rates than its neighbors. Swedish leadership is wringing its hands and apologizing for the mistakes it made in its approach, and leaders say they should have handled it differently. Try something a little more recent, and do try to keep up:

https://www.livescience.com/results-of-sweden-covid19-response.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/business/sweden-economy-coronavirus.html

So, I know how this will continue: just as it has. But try to just stop for a minute, read some more recent stuff written by experts, and ask yourself if any amount of reliable evidence could change your mind. If you're convinced C19 is a scam or a hoax or overblown or whatever, and it limits your ability to accept factual evidence, there's not much I can do for you.

[maxheadflow]

C19 is a real issue but this is interesting..

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200716-the-people-with-hidden-protection-from-covid-19

IIRC it was the experts that were saying there would be 4 million dead by now.

Science in during this pandemic has been inexact.

As far is who is with masks and who is without, you really need to either be there.  In the case of the media, you need to look the agenda of source.  I know this is stuff you really need to open your eyes to.

[maxheadflow]

https://news.yahoo.com/dr-anthony-fauci-to-throw-out-first-pitch-at-nationals-opening-day-202817323.html

https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-fishermen-test-positive-despite-232641456.html

Apparently you can get Corona spontaneously. 

[carnivorous chicken]

IIRC it was the experts that were saying there would be 4 million dead by now.

Science in during this pandemic has been inexact.

The highest number of predicted deaths in the USA that I saw was 2.4 million. This was very early on when the RO (the rate at which one person spreads the virus) and the rate of death from the virus were both unknown. Do you have a cite for 4 million? With time and the study of cases, doctors are better able to predict rates of infection. Remember also that this is a dynamic problem, not static -- the numbers continue to increase (drastically at this point, on a daily basis) so it is possible that the numbers could reach 2.4 million dead, or 4 million. Not likely, but possible. This is an example of the false equivalency I wrote about earlier by trying to compare it to the average number of people who die from the flu. That is a static average number. People who said that confidently in March did so without understanding that C19 is dynamic and going up, and they were (unfortunately) proven wrong over time.

Speaking of people not understanding how the virus would progress:
Jan 22: It's one person coming from China. We have it totally under control.
Jan 30: It's five people, it's totally under control. We are working with China and they've been great.
Feb 10: By April it will go away, when it gets warmer.
Feb 26: We have fifteen cases, and it will soon be down to zero.
Mar 10: It will just go away.
Mar 16: We will turn the corner shortly.
etc., etc.

Although the science is inexact, it is better than any other source for basing your decisions.

I appreciate the advice to open my eyes, thanks. I will work on that and try to look at the agenda of source.

[754]

 I will tell you what happened here in the last few weeks.
 A woman in  neighbouring province  thought she had Covid, and got tested , instead of isolating while waiting  for results, she decided to come out here for a few days  she went to a popular restaurant, and ended up spreading it around. She returned home, and then found out she had in fact tested positive.. but now it was too late, she exposed people.
 Soa cluster of people got it from there, and it may have spread further, they are asking people that were there at certain times to get tested. SIX EMPLOYEES from the local hospital caught it from that restaurant. .
 So one ignorant person, not taking precautions,  has now started a cluster of cases, in a town that had been fairly clear of covid.
 Most folks are pretty responsible here, one bar had an employee  test positive , has closed down to be safe , another closed for at least a day for full cleaning and to assess what to do next..
  And we are in an area, that has had very few cases... but a tourist town on a lake, so visitors are not staying away.

[scottly]

 So one ignorant person, not taking precautions,  has now started a cluster of cases, in a town that had been fairly clear of covid.
 

You hit the nail on the head, Frank. One of the interesting statistics in AZ is the number of cases in the 20-44 year-old segment of the population, which, after opening bars up and such, has increased at a much steeper rate than all other age groups, and is now about 50% of all cases.

[maxheadflow]

IIRC it was the experts that were saying there would be 4 million dead by now.

Science in during this pandemic has been inexact.

The highest number of predicted deaths in the USA that I saw was 2.4 million. This was very early on when the RO (the rate at which one person spreads the virus) and the rate of death from the virus were both unknown. Do you have a cite for 4 million? With time and the study of cases, doctors are better able to predict rates of infection. Remember also that this is a dynamic problem, not static -- the numbers continue to increase (drastically at this point, on a daily basis) so it is possible that the numbers could reach 2.4 million dead, or 4 million. Not likely, but possible. This is an example of the false equivalency I wrote about earlier by trying to compare it to the average number of people who die from the flu. That is a static average number. People who said that confidently in March did so without understanding that C19 is dynamic and going up, and they were (unfortunately) proven wrong over time.

Speaking of people not understanding how the virus would progress:
Jan 22: It's one person coming from China. We have it totally under control.
Jan 30: It's five people, it's totally under control. We are working with China and they've been great.
Feb 10: By April it will go away, when it gets warmer.
Feb 26: We have fifteen cases, and it will soon be down to zero.
Mar 10: It will just go away.
Mar 16: We will turn the corner shortly.
etc., etc.

Although the science is inexact, it is better than any other source for basing your decisions.

I appreciate the advice to open my eyes, thanks. I will work on that and try to look at the agenda of source.

Sounds like the typical leftist timeline where they want to blame Trump.  The problem is that he was getting his info from Fauci and Birx.

You want a more accurate one?

https://doggett.house.gov/media-center/blog-posts/timeline-trump-s-coronavirus-responses

You are pretty naive to think that Trump is responsible.. Remember the old bat in congress was having parties in China Town?

[scottly]

You are pretty naive to think that Trump is responsible..

I don't think anyone was saying Trump was responsible, more like irresponsible??

[grcamna2]

You are pretty naive to think that Trump is responsible..

I don't think anyone was saying Trump was responsible, more like irresponsible??

+1

[maxheadflow]

You are pretty naive to think that Trump is responsible..

I don't think anyone was saying Trump was responsible, more like irresponsible??

+1

So what's he done wrong?

[scottly]

You are pretty naive to think that Trump is responsible..

I don't think anyone was saying Trump was responsible, more like irresponsible??

+1

So what's he done wrong?

Dude, you are going to get this thread shut down by injecting politics into it. What has he done right? Deny there is a problem over and over? Refuse to wear a face mask, although he finally did just recently, and then only after criticism? The bottom line is people are dying every day in AZ, and it doesn't really matter exactly which day they actually died or what day it was reported, they are still dead.

[Scott S]

REMINDER: Forum Rule, NO POLITICS.
   And you guys are all smart enough to discuss this without insulting each other.

 Keep it civil or this thread goes away.

[maxheadflow]

REMINDER: Forum Rule, NO POLITICS.
   And you guys are all smart enough to discuss this without insulting each other.

 Keep it civil or this thread goes away.

Good point. I should have gone back and re-read that.  With this forum being named "open", I assume certain things were allowed and overstepped after some assigning blame turned it political. 

[70CB750]

C. Chicken, with all due respect...How is it that you can confidently make claims about what is happening here in the u.s., but you live in mexico city?  Pretty bold to be contradicting those who live and work here everyday?  I cant find any trust worthy sources of data.  All i know is what i have seen.  A whole lot of nothin...to be frank.

Good point

[70CB750]

You are pretty naive to think that Trump is responsible..

I don't think anyone was saying Trump was responsible, more like irresponsible??

Are you always this witty or just in July?

[Kevin D]

These are new roads for most of us to travel.
How much do HIPPA laws impede sharing of important info?
Hospital folks around here have lost their jobs for sharing truth about hospital overload conditions.
I have heard it said that we are in the same storm together, but not necessarily in the same boat.
A 52 year old pal of mine was the first Covid death in Michigan.
Wife and I had our first table service outdoor restaurant meal together since March. Masks and sanitizer before and after. Reuben sandwich in between, yum!

[Don R]

 A friend was recently disturbed because his relative had passed away while suffering covid 19 so that was listed as the cause of death. He wanted the official cause of death changed because that person already had another ailment that  would have caused his death anyway.  A case of not wanting to believe covid is real because of his politics.
  I guess the hospitals are full of fakers and scammers.
  My second favorite drag strip was just listed for sale, That make three of the closest four for sale and one shut down. One poor guy just bought one this year and was trying to get it started up after it closing early last year. 

[PeWe]

This situation is like when the Spanish Flu harvested victims, end of WWI.

Important to see how to not get nor spread it.

I hope a vaccine will be ready within a year. I'll wait when it is proved to not cause side effects like the swine flu vaccine did with mostly young people, sleeping disorder, Narcolepsy.

This did not happened to me after a shot of that vaccine.

[Stev-o]

A 52 year old pal of mine was the first Covid death in Michigan.

Sorry to hear.  How do you feel when you hear [or read] someone state that it is just a hoax?