Author Topic: Check if this air filter is it OK  (Read 1194 times)

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Offline ckahleer

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Check if this air filter is it OK
« on: March 24, 2020, 05:35:28 PM »
81 CB650
Bike sputters at speeds above 60 mph and at high rpm's. Also, plugs are sooty black.
If I remove the air cleaner filter, the bike runs great and the plugs clean up.
Rejetting carburetors from 120 mains, (stock) to 115 did not help.
I replaced the air cleaner filter after purchasing the bike, but before I got it running.
I'm questioning if my filter is too restrictive. This is what I got.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/80-83-HONDA-CB650-CB-650-CUSTOM-AIR-FILTER-CLEANER-NEW-17211-460-000/382700764690?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
What is the least restrictive filter I can get for this bike? (Not Pods.)

Offline jaytee-nz

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Re: Check if this air filter is it OK
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2020, 06:31:51 PM »
Generally speaking:
Cheap=Chinese=Crap
Genuine Honda=Quality=Good

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: Check if this air filter is it OK
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2020, 08:12:48 PM »
If you can get the original Honda then you will know it works. If you cannot get OEM, then do your research and steer clear of the CCC filters.
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline Airborne 82nd

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Re: Check if this air filter is it OK
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2020, 10:27:09 PM »
Not sure what CCC means
 ???

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: Check if this air filter is it OK
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2020, 11:10:35 PM »
CCC = Cheap Chinese Crap

China can build things to a good quality level but, it will cost more to do that. Problem that you run into is some retailers mark up the parts from their distributors and you cannot judge by price alone, sadly enough.
This forum can be a great resource for asking if others have dealt with a supplier or parts that are not original Honda or OEM. For instance, ART pistons are the OEM brand for many Honda bikes including our CBs.
Chains and chromed steel wheels were made by DID.
DSS ( David Silvers Spares) makes many pattern parts (aftermarket reproduction) parts. Their chromed steel wheels that are pattern parts are so so quality. Looking at Excel, Borrani, or Sun are better alternative wheels to consider. They also allow a wider range of widths. The crisp handling if the CB bikes is in part to the choice of tire sized used. But, the 19-18 size combo limits your tire selection because of the sizes and the 19" front tire. So, often owners will change the front to a 18" wheel and tire and adjust the rear shock height to keep trail and take numbers. The 550 has better handling than the 750, so many restomods 750s will change their take and trail numbers to tweak the numbers to a more responsive but still stable.
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline rotortiller

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Re: Check if this air filter is it OK
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2020, 04:46:11 AM »
Lots of aftermarket stuff comes from China is re-branded then distributed to North American enthusiasts  who are happily consuming for years. Often Asian items are a sub-component, often not. When you cannot beat these guys, the opportunists will often become a middle man and roach off the top. Lots of crap stuff made in NA too, just like any other large area. Take a Ford Focus transmission for an example. Many patriots are unhappy, unhappy at seeing their countrymen  having their asses whipped in the global market place. Below is a perfect example what happens with a luxury item regarding prices after fumigation. LOL  We are pretty fortunate through hands on reports to have forums dedicated to weed out "CCC" BS and in general all bad parts regardless of origin. I have been happy with the Asian antique stuff so far from signal lights, suspension pars to engine bits to body parts. Some I bought direct, some through the roach system. My point as exampled.

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Cheap 836 kits back on ebay...$110! *Update!  (Read 64896 times)

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Offline ckahleer

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Re: Check if this air filter is it OK
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2020, 08:24:22 AM »
Update,
I found that running without an air filter and with air box cover installed, bike runs fine. With air filter installed, and air box cover off, bike runs fine. It is just when filter is in and air box cover is installed, it sputters at speed.
I have my doughts that getting a genuine Honda filter will make any difference, but I'll go ahead and do it, just to be sure. Its just a dumb paper element filter.

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: Check if this air filter is it OK
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2020, 09:58:08 PM »
Oil filters and air filters are often really tough to tell much from visual. Dissect a cheap Fram filter and for their oil filters you find less media (pleats) and the material used is more porous allowing larger particle size to pass. Air filter I bet are the same way. So, I won’t put a Fram filter in anything and try to steer clear of Chinese stuff if I can get it from some other country. Same reason I try to stay out of Walmart...they were a major force behind many US manufacturing companies of consumer goods setting up shop in China. I do not wish to line the pockets of the Walton family...
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline scunny

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Re: Check if this air filter is it OK
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2020, 10:39:39 PM »
CV carb 650's known for needing more air access to the airbox, I don't know if that's filter related, but I read of this a few years ago.
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Offline rotortiller

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Re: Check if this air filter is it OK
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2020, 12:36:55 PM »
Unless you measure the micron pass with lab equipment visual opinion is Asian-Trump science LOL.
 Lets say for arguments sake TS guess is correct and the filter passes larger particles, this would make it less restrictive and more suitable to the OP symptoms.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 12:50:15 PM by rotortiller »

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: Check if this air filter is it OK
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2020, 07:11:46 PM »
That's why I don't consider buying non Honda filters for my CX500.  I didn't learn about Honda's superior control cables before buying a set of MotionPro cables for my bike.  The filter thing as well. Some lessons are expensive I guess.
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline ckahleer

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Re: Check if this air filter is it OK
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2020, 08:02:38 AM »
Putting in a new genuine Honda air filter did not help. Bike still sputter at high speed and plugs carbon up. Putting 1/4" spacers on the air box cover bolts to keep the air box cover slightly open resolves those issues, but why do I need more air? Right exhaust is original to the bike. Left exhaust is NOS I installed this year. Exhaust pressure feels the same from both sides.

Offline rotortiller

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Re: Check if this air filter is it OK
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2020, 09:30:05 AM »
Quote
but why do I need more air

Maybe drop the needle one position then deal with the main jet after that? Maybe it is less fuel you need with the airbox sealed normally. You seem to be on the right trail with experimentation.

Online Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Check if this air filter is it OK
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2020, 09:46:27 AM »
Don't think you need more air. Sounds like you need less gas for the air you have. Drop the needles one notch as suggested and/or smaller main jets depending on the the rpm range the problem occurs at.
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline rotortiller

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Re: Check if this air filter is it OK
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2020, 04:45:49 AM »
There was a service bulletin regarding a replacement airbox cover for a similar problem. Not sure if it was for PD or CV carbs. It covered poor acceleration.

Offline ckahleer

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Re: Check if this air filter is it OK
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2020, 10:12:42 PM »
There was a service bulletin regarding a replacement airbox cover for a similar problem. Not sure if it was for PD or CV carbs. It covered poor acceleration.
Very Interesting. The bike had sat for 26 years, and the plugs that were in it when I first started working on it were black. Apparently, this was a problem some CB650 had, and it looks like I have been reinventing the wheel, as some others have corrected the problem by shimming open the air box cover or removing it completely.