Topic: Bad ignition switch? UPDATE: Solved....I think!

[Scott S]

 Today, I am finally at the point where I can install a battery in my project bike and power it up. I believe the ignition switch to be faulty. It only powers up/lights up the dash when it is in between detents on the switch. From OFF to ON does nothing, but in that brief second before you feel it click into place, I see the neutral and oil warning lights on the dash. Same thing when I go from ON to PARK. There is no power to the bike when it is on, only when it's between positions on the switch. Does this sound like a simple bad switch, or am I over looking something?

 I am using a 1973 wiring harness and controls. It has the single glass fuse (for now). I have power to the RED/WHITE wire on one side of the fuse and on the RED wire on the other side of the fuse. Fuse is good and tested. I also tried a couple of other fuses.
 One other question: Should I have 12V on the fuse at all times? Even when the switch is off?

 This is the switch I am using:

https://4into1.com/square-plug-ignition-switch-seat-lock-set-cb200-350f-360-500k-550k-750k-cl200-360/

[Scott S]

 OK, so more information... I think I have more U.E.S. (unexplained electrical s**t) going on.

 *I do not have the points or points replacement wired up yet.
 *Headlight isn't plugged in but I have plug in the harness.
 *LED dash bulbs, tail light and turns. Diode wired into front turns and awaiting an electronic flasher.
 
 I forgot that this year has the OFF-Lo-Hi switch for the lights. Turned it on and saw the dash (tach and speedo) and tail light light up, but still no neutral or oil idiot lights. Brake light works with both switches.
 Rear turns light up but don't flash, no front turns and no indicator light on dash. No worries....I'll fix that later, as I'm waiting on the relay anyway.

 But I still have no other warning lights. I jumped the posts on the solenoid with a screwdriver and starter turns the engine over.

 SO......

1) Why do I only have warning lights on the dash for neutral and oil when I'm in between positions on the switch? The Hi Beam indicator lights up when I switch over to HI on the RH control.

2) Am I supposed to have power on both sides of the main fuse at all times? Even when the switch is off?

3) Sounds like a bad starter solenoid? Or should I make sure I don't have something funky going on between the key switch and the RH control/start button before assuming that?

4) Signals. I'll some back to this after I figure out 1, 2 and 3!

[Scott S]

 And more:

 - Horn works.
 - When I first turned on the lights, I had tach and speedo back lights, now only the tach lights.
 - There are no safety circuits on this year; no clutch safety or side stand switch.

 EDIT/UPDATE:

 -Looks like power always on at both sides of the fuse is normal.
 - Pulled the bulb on the tach and it was burned out. Replaced it and it also burned out after cycling the key switch a few times.
 - Power to to the starter button YELLOW/RED wire, and if I jump the posts at the starter solenoid it turns.
 - Headlight works.
 - Removed diode and plugged in turns normally. They light up solid left or right and the dash indicator only lights up (solid) when the LH turns are on. I'll come back to these when the electronic relay gets here. I may need to put the diode back inline.

 Checked the connections for the dash and didn't find anything wrong. Checked grounds and all looks good.
 Looks more and more like I have 1) a wonky key switch, and 2) a bad starter solenoid.

 I'd still like to hear someone smarter that me weigh in, though.

 

[scottly]

And more:

 - Horn works.
 - When I first turned on the lights, I had tach and speedo back lights, now only the tach lights.
 - There are no safety circuits on this year; no clutch safety or side stand switch.

 EDIT/UPDATE:

 -Looks like power always on at both sides of the fuse is normal.
 - Pulled the bulb on the tach and it was burned out. Replaced it and it also burned out after cycling the key switch a few times.
 - Power to to the starter button YELLOW/RED wire, and if I jump the posts at the starter solenoid it turns.
 - Headlight works.
 - Removed diode and plugged in turns normally. They light up solid left or right and the dash indicator only lights up (solid) when the LH turns are on. I'll come back to these when the electronic relay gets here. I may need to put the diode back inline.

 Checked the connections for the dash and didn't find anything wrong. Checked grounds and all looks good.
 Looks more and more like I have 1) a wonky key switch, and 2) a bad starter solenoid.

 I'd still like to hear someone smarter that me weigh in, though.

You are really hard to follow?? As far as the starter, you say you have power to the starter button yellow/red wire. The solenoid needs one of the small wires connected to ground, and the other small wire connected to 12v to operate, which connects the solenoid posts together.
There is no wiring error that can burn out an incandescent light bulb just from being turned on and off, unless it was fed too high of a voltage?? 

[Scott S]

 I guess in my attempt to provide plenty of information I got a little scrambled.

 The dash bulb that keeps blowing is LED. All of the warning light bulbs (handlebar clamp) are LED. The tach and speedo backlights are LED. The tach bulb keeps blowing.

 I have 12V on the Y/R wire in the headlight bucket, where the RH control/starter button plugs in. I have 12V at the Y/R wire back on the electrical panel, where the starter solenoid plugs in.
 Nothing happens when I press the starter button.  Starter runs when I use a screwdriver across the posts on the solenoid.

 I don't understand why my dash bulbs (neutral and oil) don't light up when the key switch is in the ON position, but they both flash briefly when I'm in between positions on the key switch.

 When key is ON and light switch is ON, I now have brake lights, tail light, headlight (and HI beam indicator on dash works) and horn.

 I will address making the LED turn signals work properly later.

 Why does the HI BEAM indicator on the dash work, but N and OIL seem to only work when the key is in between detents? A video may help here....
 And the starter issue.... button on RH control? Solenoid?

[ekpent]

I'm curious as to what size /year of bike your working on unless I missed it somewhere. Ain't electrical stuff fun !!

[onepieceatatime]

Are the ones not working a bayonet or push in type bulb?
If push in, pull them out and flip them 180, and replace to see if that makes a difference.

[Scott S]

I'm curious as to what size /year of bike your working on unless I missed it somewhere. Ain't electrical stuff fun !!

 It's a sweep the floor special.  Frame is CB500, engine is '77 or '78 550, wiring harness and controls are '73 CB500. No clutch safety switch. No side stand safety switch.

[Scott S]

Are the ones not working a bayonet or push in type bulb?
If push in, pull them out and flip them 180, and replace to see if that makes a difference.

 Push in style, and the little nibs on the body aren't offset, so it goes in either direction and seems to work.  It lights up,  but burns out after cycling the key switch a few times.
 This is only happening on the tach backlight, so I'll check the bulb holder to make sure it's not shorting out somehow.  I checked the wires and plugs last night.

[my name is nobody]

Are the bulbs you are using rated for 6 or 12 volts?....(wild guess)

[Scott S]

 Well, I made a video to help explain the issues and I seem to have fixed it! I believe it has/had something to do with the resistance, or lack of, of the LED bulbs.
 I studied the diagram carefully. Checked my wiring carefully. Couldn't figure out what I was missing. On a hunch, I removed all of the LED dash bulbs and now it all works as it should. I don't know why the starter button decided to start working....maybe some corrosion finally wore off or maybe by me jumping the posts on the solenoid "kick started" it. Either way, it works.
 I am waiting on my electronic flasher relay and on the Trytronic points replacement plate.

 Issues:

 Follow up/resolution:

[bryanj]

If you put an led bulb in the flasher repeater both sides will work at once and not sure if you need the current draw of a standard neutral bulb for safety circuit to work

[Scott S]

 Flasher repeater? You mean the indicator in the dash? That's what I had in there in the first video. Didn't work. All dash bulbs were LED in the first video and k documented the issues I was having.

[Deltarider]

With LEDs there is polarity to observe. Could that have played a role? As far as our bikes, I cannot think of a useful replacement by LED, except for maybe the tail light, if you can accept that it will be less noticed at an angle. I certainly do not recommend LED in the idiot lights, not on models where left and right side indicators share one and the same idiot light in the dash.

[Scott S]

 I tested the polarity of the dash bulbs when I had the plug for the tach back light out. These bulbs would work either way.

 I currently have LED brake/tail and turn signals. Headlight and dash/gauge bulbs are now incandescent.

[Bodi]

There are a couple of issues with a single turn idiot light and LED signal lamps. The idiot light is wired between the two signal lamp power leads, powering one lights the idiot light through the other signal lamp - the lower wattage idiot light goes bright while the tiny current barely warms up the opposite signal lamp. Works pretty well!
With LED signals the idiot light is dim and the opposite signal lamps fairly bright as the current required for the LEDs is low compared to the OEM filament signal lamps.
An LED idiot light with filament signals won't work both ways. The LED is a diode and only lights with one polarity so if it's installed so the left signal lights it, the right one won't because the LED polarity is reversed.
The fix for that is pretty simple: disconnect the two wires to the "turn" idiot light socket and connect the socket's sleeve terminal to ground. Add an inline diode to each disconnected wire and both diodes to the socket centre terminal (with the diodes' polarity lines towards the socket) and install your LED idiot light bulb. This works with filament or LED signals. Bit of soldering and shrink tube work but not very hard.
Even with an electronic flasher so your LED signals will actually flash I don't see how the filament idiot light will work well, and it will need the diode fix.

I can't guess why an LED instrument bulb would repeatedly burn out. There is no way to have higher than the expected ~12VDC battery voltage on any lamp in the system. Are you sure you have 12V LED lamps? Some identical looking bayonet ones are just LEDs without the internal series resistor required to work without an external one - these allow them to work on any voltage with an appropriate external resistor.